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hybridchic

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hybridchic
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PostedJul 16, 2010 4:40 pm   Last edited by hybridchic on Jul 17, 2010 6:09 pm. Edited 1 time in total

A Revision to ToS

I would like to see a change made to preven sexual harassment

It has taken me many days (approximately three) and many nights massacring dwarves (two and a half) for me to overcome a rather serious problem that occurred to people I care deeply about in game. So bare with me as I explain the change I would like to see made and the reasons for it.


It has always been known to me and many others that there is an age requirement to play this game without the consent of a parent. Regardless of that, the fact of the matter is there are a number of players that play this game and are minors. When players choose to play this game they are allowing themselves to come in contact with any number of people of various walks of the earth, age groups, and mindsets. (I'm not sure how many players chose to play this game in the hopes of being abused but I assure you I know of at least 35 players of various ages, elasticities, and both genders, who are looking for a good time and not abuse.)

Because not everyone you meet in game is necessarily 'right in the head', or does not fully comprehend what the ToS they agree to is, I would like for it to be in very clear English somewhere say that discrimination or abuse on the basis of gender is not tolerated. (I'd like for the penalty of this offense to be longer than three days or be grounds for a permanent ban.)

My reasoning for this is because earlier this week, I found myself carrying out guild officer duties and for any number of reasons either because other players know I'm not much for messing around or will punish guildies (ie: kick/demote) I was not told of a new recruit behaving in conduct that I'm pretty certain broke ToS.

In handling the situation I found out that the offending player was under-aged and lacking in understanding of the ToS he agreed to when he decided to play this game. (You can take my idea to heart; ignore it; make amends so it includes discrimination based on ethnicity, nationality, etc.) Because the problem I was dealing with involved discrimination and defamation of character based on gender I am specifically asking a change be made to specify discrimination on the basis of gender that includes but is not limited to the following:

- lewd, vulgar comments requesting/demanding unwarranted sexually explicit acts
- lewd/vulgar names characteristic of a gender stereotype
- lewd/ vulgar comments that are anyway demeaning because of gender
- targeting (with intent to harm) any subset of players based on gender
- deliberately harassing a player because of their gender

You don't have to use those exact terms, phrases but since that is the politest way I know how to say what another player did, this is how I am wording this. These are also the phrases I used when I explained (in the politest manner I could muster) why what this player did was wrong.

I am also asking for a change because I see that spamming, promotion fraud, third party advertisements, hacking and GS/GM impersonation carry a permanent suspension of an account. While these (except spamming) are criminal acts, discrimination of any sort with (with the exception of sexual preference) is a criminal act in the US and carries any number of penalties depending on the circumstance in the US. I'd like to think that in this day and age we don't need to argue/debate the severity of gender issues but since I have to make this post, rest assured I'm also willing to defend my stance. Even more reason to make a change suh as this is the fact that minors (with or without parental consent) should not have to face these sorts of problems. If you want, you can see it as something harmful/damaging being uploaded which is very much against ToS (section 7 (a) and 7 (b))

Furthermore, a 3 Day Suspension grants a player time enough to be banned, come back and, unless he's already been removed from a guild, time enough to continue spreading their bad behavior to other guilds. A second or third offense of this nature would probably warrant a permanent suspension but it does nothing to prevent exposure of more players to this negative mindset.

I know that there is no way to prevent this kind of behavior from happening a first time. But there is a way to prevent a second occurrence of this behavior by a repeat offender. It also gives people a chance to more or less "spread the word" either through gossip or other interactions between players about people to look out for when going through guild lists. (All members of any guild has access to a guild roster, from which they can scroll down a list, play the "who's a girl/dude guessing game" and then proceed to whisper/intentionally party with certain people so that they may harass and or stalk them. And by spreading the word I do not mean screaming in trade chat something along the lines of "chauvinistic son of bleeper did this". I have too much class for that and I'm not one to spread guild business to everyone online at any given moment. As hard as it is for some to believe, guild officers can and do talk to guild officers from other guilds for various reasons)

Part of the reason I am making this request is because harassment in general is not tolerated however harassment can be something as small as a matter of KS. I am asking that there be something specific so no one can say after that fact that they didn't know what discrimination because of gender is or that they didn't know it was a form of harassment. Also because it gives a name to what some of my guildies experienced. (Harassment in my eyes just doesn't cut it)

Thanks to the guys upstairs if they read this AND make the changes I am seeking.
And yeah I wasn't sure exactly where to put this but I'm confident it will be moved if it is in the wrong place.
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truboi18

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clyde United States
PostedJul 16, 2010 5:25 pm
This is a good post but it's not needed all you have to do is SS the conversation and report him/her. As of AEG changing the terms is not gonna happen or they would have long ago. As of underage players, I think it should get looked into. It seems like to me that every KS'er is a child that only knows how to cuss.

NBForrest1

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14 Oct 2008
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washington United States
PostedJul 16, 2010 5:57 pm
I agree, gender harrassment and or discrimination should definately be in the TOS, I`m surprised that it isnt already a part of the TOS.
The *** chat and sexual inuendos in trade chat have gotten way out of control. At times it is nothing more than cyber *** chat and not trade chat. I often have to turn trade chat off,but when I do that it also turns off the area chat, so I cant see who might be looking for a party or party members.
Perhaps they (AGE/Sonov) could fix it so that when you turn trade chat off area chat stays on.
gender harrassment and or discrimination is no different than racial harrassment and or discrimination. if racial harrassment and or discrimination is not allowed in the game than neither should gender harrassment and or discrimination be allowed or tolerated in the game.
Hey AGE, it`s the new millenium, get with the times.

draven99

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draven99
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PostedJul 16, 2010 6:06 pm
I've seen some behavior in trade as well that hints at the players age, maybe they are underage or just immature, but I find that most of the time when someone speaks up and says knock it off, the people just say well if you don't like it turn trade off, etc. It is an 18+ game, but still, we don't need crap like that on trade, if anyone feels the need to talk that way than at least take it to PM's. I don't think the ToS will be edited, and even if it was, players for the most part will still act the way they want to, unfortunately. Kudos on the post though. Smile

Permanently retired from Shaiya as of 08/2012.

Superfrog1219

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PostedJul 16, 2010 6:35 pm
Great post! Very well written and thoughtout. I am in complete agreement with you. The ToS can be changed and has been before, last time was the new pvp rules. In any case even if they do not change the ToS, maybe this will let the GMs know we as players would like more done to these kind of issues.

Again great job and tons of /support.

STEEL82

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STEEL82
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PostedJul 16, 2010 8:43 pm
Coming from a Game that has Strip Poker! -.-

LedZepMan92

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PostedJul 16, 2010 8:44 pm
STEEL82 wrote:
Coming from a Game that has Strip Poker! -.-  

As Avyn would say, content vs. conduct Razz

H4x.Plz

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PostedJul 16, 2010 9:40 pm
Well... if we're on the topic of revising the ToS...
Why have this statement [3. Account]:
 
Your User ID may be deactivated if you do not use it within six months after the date that it was created or for any continuous period of six months after creation. If you do not use your User ID for six or more months, it may be removed and deleted by the Website administrator at their sole discretion. We will use reasonable efforts to notify you by e-mail before we delete your User ID. If you advise us within five days of the notice that you want to keep your User ID active, we will not delete it. If you do not so notify us, your User ID will be permanently deleted, along with your User ID records, ranks and service information.  


When later it is made clear later[12. Disciplinary Action/Account Termination]:
 
AGE MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE ANY ACCOUNT AT ANY TIME WITH OR WITHOUT REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE.  


Seems like a minor contradiction to me, maybe not. Guess it doesn't matter too much. It's always bothered me though >_> <_<

o_0

Superfrog1219

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PostedJul 16, 2010 9:55 pm
Cause that are 2 different issues. The first is saying they will try to let you in when only this case happeneds, the other is saying they can do that if they wanted to for any reason.

SailorSpira

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PostedJul 16, 2010 10:02 pm
Well we did discuss this over YIM... but, it is not allowed within ToS, Players Ethic's Guide and Play Nice policy's all have paragraphs about harrassment or discrimintation. No Gender is not specified, but that does not mean it is permited.

Each case is judged on it's own merits, yes something like repeated KSing may only get a 3 day ban, but as you can see major offence can also warrent a perma ban. I am well aware of the issue at hand, I am also well aware none of the victims involved reported it.

I trust the GM's to look at the situation and give the appropriate punishment. However if no one reports it GM's can not act on it. This does not mean it is permited, harrassment covers a broad variety of issues, some minor, some major, but it is difficult to make a list of exactly what that entails as something would eventually be left out, then that used as an excuse.

Yes adding do not discriminate against Gender could not hurt, but I don't feel it is nessecary. This kind of behaviour is not, nore has it ever been acceptable. The problem in this issue lies not with the ToS but with the sad fact that none of the victims reported it. That is the key to justice here, speak up.

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