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codbeast

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PostedMar 06, 2010 10:37 am

Malice Info

Game Veterans only please
So I have been trying to figure out how malice is calculated but haven't got a clue yet, and yes I am aware malice is the aggro one has, does the amount of malice = the amount of dmg you do? Some spells like holy light grenade state "generates a very high malice value" where as mighty shield bash states "Enemy malice +2400" and then there is just the +% malice increase so lets say I cast hot blooded surge and get 100% malice boost then use might shield bash and do 4000 dmg do I get 8000 malice +2400 or what, also final spell question, strike of justice states "and can double enemy malice value" does that mean you double the total amount of malice you have built up or if you hit and do 2000 dmg with it, it gives you 4000 malice instead and yes I know I am referring to the theory that the malice = dmg dealt, BUT there is more, we all know that if a sage or cleric heals it also generates malice so is the malice equal to the heal amount and if they use an AoE heal does it count malice for each person healed? And do the spells such as cure blight, or the other negative status removing spells build malice at all and will malice be built up for each DPS dmg and Regen heal tick? Is it built up if you reflect dmg, do you get a malice bonus if you stun, silence, dizzy, paralyze, etc the mob? Yes I am sorry this is a lot of questions but there are so many factors in malice it seems and as a paladin I would like more info to possibly come up with better ways to build up and maintain malice specially if a wizard is in the group. And not to be rude to anyone but could I get answers from people who actually have thought this over like I have and might know what they are talking about, no need for posts saying "yeah I was wondering this too" or something lol all this being said that if I can get enough info in my studies of this I might be able to come up with some formula or something which could help groups run a more cleaner dungeon run or world boss etc.

Thanks for reading and your help (if you help) Very Happy
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blueasbutterfly

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PostedMar 06, 2010 10:52 am

Re: Malice Info

Game Veterans only please
As far as I can tell there isn't a numerical way to calculate it -- except that the damage that you do DOES result in malice. Paladins have +aggro spells to keep and hold aggro, which means that other DPS classes need to back off a little to ensure that the paladin keeps aggro. Necros (possibly wizards too, I'm not certain,) have anti-aggro spells. It would be nice if they would add some kind of aggro meter in-game, they're still working things out so maybe they'll add it later. It would be even harder to calculate, too, because many pally spells increase aggro by a percentage while the skill is active, but is that adding to a percent of the base damage or the aggro that has already amassed? And do the values add together... is it 100% + 35% plus another 50% of that total? Or 100% plus 35% plus another 50% of the base 100%? At this point it seems that the percents and numbers are simply to indicate how high the level of malice is -- i.e., if you want to keep aggro, re-cast this spell a lot, and also to let the players know which spells collect aggro (if two paladins are fighting and only one is tank, the non-tank needs to know which ones not to use).

About heal aggro, from my sage-experience it seems to be less than the heal value, however, in AOE situations, if someone is getting "ganged up on" and hasn't dealt damage to the mobs that are hitting (i.e., the person hasn't gotten any aggro except by passing by,) they will mob up on the healer quickly. The same is true of adds or spawns in instances when there isn't someone dealing with them. You get aggro the same way when you AOE heal, and it also seems that if you buff someone to reflect damage, you get the aggro from that reflected damage. However, if there is someone standing by and the healer hasn't hit any of the mobs that are now hitting him/her, the aggro is very easily stolen, so it seems that the heal malice value is pretty low compared to the heal value.

The best way to get through big bosses with a tank is to give them plenty of time to get aggro. Healers that are well-equipped can easily keep the heals going a few extra seconds to ensure the tank doesn't lose aggro. This usually means waiting at least two spell-rounds, to give them time to cool off and be re-cast. That way the tank has a good head-start on aggro collecting (especially important since paladins have low mp and bosses often drain it). Having at least one person ONLY on the spawns is another good tactic, since the healer cant' fight off spawns/heal him/herself AND heal the tank at the same time. World bosses get more complicated because there are so many spawns, so many tanks, etc. Best way to go about that is to make as many raid parties as there are people attacking so that the healer can keep tabs on who needs heals -- the AOE spells and strong spawns means that they're usually not just focusing on the tank, in fact, quite the opposite, since it's often the tanks that can fend for themselves in that situation better than the other classes.

Hope that helps, sorry I can't give you more definite info.

I would add though that when people add something that says "I'm wondering, too" it acts as a bump to push your post back to the top of the list, where more people are likely to read it and comment. So it's not necessarily a bad thing Smile

codbeast

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PostedMar 06, 2010 12:04 pm
Yeah I have found that if I tell my team to let me and me only attack for like the first 15-20 seconds or so I can build up enough aggro to hold onto it but there still has to be some way to determine how much aggro you accumulate per hit or so it has to be based off dmg cause if I am hitting for 2k standard and a wizard plows him with like a 7k crit I lose aggro lol maybe aggro is based off time too? Idk maybe a gm or gs might have more info would be great if one of them gave their input and it is hard to figure this out because because to test it you have to fight a boss and when there are 5 people casting and attacking that is hard cause there are so much damage counters to keep track of, and if 2 paladins are attacking the boss I prefer to have both build up as much aggro as possible as long as the healer of the team can pay attention to which has it but if something went wrong and a pally died it is best the other pally had plenty of aggro built up to cover for the fallen paladin though I personally prefer the 1 paladin 1 cleric and 1 sage combo pally tanks, sage gets the regens going, and cleric gets the buffs and quick heals coming makes it difficult for a pally to die then imo :p but thank you for your help all answers I get will be counted for and all thought over in every aspect

Repliforce

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PostedMar 06, 2010 6:22 pm
Not that this will answer your post, but to those who are unfamiliar with what "malice" means, it's an other word for the term "aggro", or "hate" (depending which MMO you came from).

Eden Eternal IGN: Mitsunari Character Level 39/[WAR20][KNT30][THF35][ENG30][HUN32][CLR30]

LoveLovey

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PostedMar 06, 2010 6:24 pm
Repliforce wrote:
Not that this will answer your post, but to those who are unfamiliar with what "malice" means, it's an other word for the term "aggro", or "hate" (depending which MMO you came from).  
If you take a look at his first sentence he explains what Malice is.


[ Aquamarine - Tranquillus - Deity ]

Respect existence or expect resistance.

codbeast

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PostedMar 06, 2010 6:29 pm
Wow I said in my first post that I am completely aware what malice is.... I was asking if there was a way to calculate how much malice you actually build up based on how much dmg you do

blueasbutterfly

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PostedMar 06, 2010 6:31 pm
codbeast wrote:
Yeah I have found that if I tell my team to let me and me only attack for like the first 15-20 seconds or so I can build up enough aggro to hold onto it but there still has to be some way to determine how much aggro you accumulate per hit or so it has to be based off dmg cause if I am hitting for 2k standard and a wizard plows him with like a 7k crit I lose aggro lol maybe aggro is based off time too? Idk maybe a gm or gs might have more info would be great if one of them gave their input and it is hard to figure this out because because to test it you have to fight a boss and when there are 5 people casting and attacking that is hard cause there are so much damage counters to keep track of, and if 2 paladins are attacking the boss I prefer to have both build up as much aggro as possible as long as the healer of the team can pay attention to which has it but if something went wrong and a pally died it is best the other pally had plenty of aggro built up to cover for the fallen paladin though I personally prefer the 1 paladin 1 cleric and 1 sage combo pally tanks, sage gets the regens going, and cleric gets the buffs and quick heals coming makes it difficult for a pally to die then imo :p but thank you for your help all answers I get will be counted for and all thought over in every aspect  


Even if you could determine how much per hit, how could you possibly determine how much everyone else is going to get, if you take into account their talents and other factors such as crit rate and crit damage? And then you'd have to keep track of all those numbers, as well as the odds for change (i.e., an attack could be anywhere from 3k to 6k depending on whether there's a crit) through the whole battle. It is pretty easy to make sure that the tank keeps aggro, as long as people respect that there's someone tanking and other people back off if someone else takes that aggro. Basically, it should be calculated as "get a lot, and keep it up" -- you can only re-use your malice spells when they cool down, as long as you keep using them and keep yourself malice-buffed, you're doing your job.

codbeast

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PostedMar 06, 2010 6:34 pm
I know that but things like this interest me really just because it's one of those known unknowns so I find it fascinating and would like to just find out more behind it really also like I said spells are worded differently as to how much malice they claim to give so I am really wondering if strike of justice doubles the malice you get from just the initial hit from strike of justice or if it in fact has a chance to double your entire malice

codbeast

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PostedMar 06, 2010 11:18 pm
Okay one final bump til I give up on info, help me out here guys :p

thestarch

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PostedMar 06, 2010 11:22 pm
malice = excitebike

The tooltips/mechanics of malice are so **** vague otherwise that if you think about it your brain explodes. So just think about those A and B hills.
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