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vinRADOX

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vinRADOX
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PostedMar 04, 2014 9:53 pm
Copestetic wrote:
 

Lighten up ^^
We're just here having a casual discussion/speculation about future stuffs happening in our server, not to make enemies.
I encourage you to just calm down for a moment take this a little less personal, and a bit more lightheartedly

Back to the disucssion>>>
Obviously not 1-shot
Irrelevant note: Archer is the only class that can get 90+% acc and basically nullify all your evasion... that is if they build it like that

With BiS 60 gear you can get 75% defense and ~45% dmg reduction from players, which builds up to a sizable ~86% damage reduction (obviously certain classes can get more but this is just for comparison). Also keep in mind that %dmg reduction applies AFTER armor reduction so it is not as OP as some people think.

Add koto 4* +envoy +some food = 150% reduce crit dmg taken (basically makes a crit equal to a normal hit... SO OP)

Lets assume your average GEARED archer has ~250% crit dmg vs players with food on (so I guess 830k unmitigated crit). With crit dmg reduction it becomes ~330k

after mitigation it is 46k

So what is the morale of the story?
4* eidolons are OP... or at least, will be hahaha~
Theres no 4* yet but it will balance things out

Sorry I got sidetracked there
Also: If you like pokemon battles, PvP might be your venue of choice in the distant future Surprised
Second sidenote: building defense is just asking for your butt to get kicked by DoT duelists, and no, the 50% nerf to DoT damage in PvP doesn't help, its still too significant  



Define "geared". Full +20?

You're forgetting the % Crit Dmg taken from Players, which with a defensive PvP set such as Great Generals, is -40% total once at +20. Nor are you factoring in Aelius, as any PvP minded player in a premade team will be running at least one. So there's another -35% CRIT DMG taken. Also not adding more Damage Reduction through Potions such as Warrior's Soul. Could also put in -2% Costumes, Cards ( PvP cards, very important ), and Secret Stones for players such as a Bard who needs to gear defensively to boot.


All that aside, my point stands. If you're geared appropriately, you're not going to get one-shot. If you're running a full Aria set in the Arenas, you will. But that's always been the case, and it's not changing once we get Warbow.  


I never once said in my argument that warbows were one-shotting
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Copestetic

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PostedMar 04, 2014 9:54 pm   Last edited by Copestetic on Mar 04, 2014 9:55 pm. Edited 1 time in total
vinRADOX wrote:
Copestetic wrote:
I'm more of a defense player by nature, as I've always played a dedicated healer in MMO's prior to my time here in AK. /Guard will be what I go with, as it gives you a distance creator through Windfury in the case that a melee class gets to you, a stun to be used defensively, a bonus to your DEF stat through Sword and Shield, Envoy Skills ( Ults ), and two more skills that are used defensively, Phalanx and Mirrored Shield.

Warbows already have enough of an offensive punch to be a good standalone class and can afford to build more defensively than others. Choosing a subclass that offers little in the way of survival just sounds like a bad idea to me, especially when 10vs10 makes it here where it's going to be a small zergfest and building tanky is practically required.  


Building tanky?
The only class that won't get one-shotted by a good warbow's crit is a good guardian...
The only good defensive stat in PvP is evasion
But warbows have a ton of accuracy so...

Anyone else ready for a single class to completely break pvp?
Oh I'm sure its a completely balanced class in other servers, as shown by the tons of complaint threads everyday Wink  



?

Edit. Please just stop.

vinRADOX

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PostedMar 04, 2014 9:55 pm
Copestetic wrote:
vinRADOX wrote:
Copestetic wrote:
I'm more of a defense player by nature, as I've always played a dedicated healer in MMO's prior to my time here in AK. /Guard will be what I go with, as it gives you a distance creator through Windfury in the case that a melee class gets to you, a stun to be used defensively, a bonus to your DEF stat through Sword and Shield, Envoy Skills ( Ults ), and two more skills that are used defensively, Phalanx and Mirrored Shield.

Warbows already have enough of an offensive punch to be a good standalone class and can afford to build more defensively than others. Choosing a subclass that offers little in the way of survival just sounds like a bad idea to me, especially when 10vs10 makes it here where it's going to be a small zergfest and building tanky is practically required.  


Building tanky?
The only class that won't get one-shotted by a good warbow's crit is a good guardian...
The only good defensive stat in PvP is evasion
But warbows have a ton of accuracy so...

Anyone else ready for a single class to completely break pvp?
Oh I'm sure its a completely balanced class in other servers, as shown by the tons of complaint threads everyday Wink  



?  

M-my bad XD didn't mean to say that
I was in the heat of the moment haha

sorry for spreading blasphemy Embarassed
That pretty much eliminates the point of these several pages of discussion doesn't it


(Also -crit dmg taken stops working after it reduces to base)
Edit: that doesn't eliminate the fact that I still think they will break PvP The base ACC they have available to them, natural bulk, and sheer burst potential will break PvP.

>implying PvP isn't broken in the first place
Okay it will break it MORE Very Happy

Edit2: You ignored my point about pokemon battles

Copestetic

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PostedMar 04, 2014 11:11 pm
vinRADOX wrote:
Copestetic wrote:
vinRADOX wrote:
Copestetic wrote:
I'm more of a defense player by nature, as I've always played a dedicated healer in MMO's prior to my time here in AK. /Guard will be what I go with, as it gives you a distance creator through Windfury in the case that a melee class gets to you, a stun to be used defensively, a bonus to your DEF stat through Sword and Shield, Envoy Skills ( Ults ), and two more skills that are used defensively, Phalanx and Mirrored Shield.

Warbows already have enough of an offensive punch to be a good standalone class and can afford to build more defensively than others. Choosing a subclass that offers little in the way of survival just sounds like a bad idea to me, especially when 10vs10 makes it here where it's going to be a small zergfest and building tanky is practically required.  


Building tanky?
The only class that won't get one-shotted by a good warbow's crit is a good guardian...
The only good defensive stat in PvP is evasion
But warbows have a ton of accuracy so...

Anyone else ready for a single class to completely break pvp?
Oh I'm sure its a completely balanced class in other servers, as shown by the tons of complaint threads everyday Wink  



?  

M-my bad XD didn't mean to say that
I was in the heat of the moment haha

sorry for spreading blasphemy Embarassed
That pretty much eliminates the point of these several pages of discussion doesn't it


(Also -crit dmg taken stops working after it reduces to base)
Edit: that doesn't eliminate the fact that I still think they will break PvP The base ACC they have available to them, natural bulk, and sheer burst potential will break PvP.

>implying PvP isn't broken in the first place
Okay it will break it MORE Very Happy

Edit2: You ignored my point about pokemon battles  



Being hit by base damage is a lot less than what you were making them out to be. I, and anyone else that gears themselves primarily for PvP, shouldn't be worried about that.

As far as ACC, who cares? I mean really. It's been mentioned before, but 1% ACC = 2% EVA. EVA and ACC were already broken to begin with in my opinion for PvP. It's why it gets such a bad rap from players who again, gear for PvP.

About their burst, while strong ( a little too strong ) it's not just "OMGWTFDIDIJUSTGETHITWITHIMDEAD!" strong if you're geared for PvP. It, along with another player or two FF'ing a Brawler would probably be difficult to heal through. But, it's why I believe that when we get premades, off-healers will be needed to better assist through spike damage ( Burst, apparently in AK ) and competitive teams will understand the reasoning for it. *Shameless plug for Sorc/Bards with full SPD build filling this role while throwing debuffs and linebacking with CC*.

And last, Eidolons. I consider Eidolons part of a players gear. Choosing one that helps a player in their role is important. Call it a Poke'mon battle if you want lol. But they're there to boost our stats, provide buffs and skills. Just an extension of our gear set ( but more annoying ) to me.

IGN: iProtect 29 ME and Snares 29 PU.

vinRADOX

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vinRADOX
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PostedMar 05, 2014 12:26 am
Copestetic wrote:
Being hit by base damage is a lot less than what you were making them out to be. I, and anyone else that gears themselves primarily for PvP, shouldn't be worried about that.

As far as ACC, who cares? I mean really. It's been mentioned before, but 1% ACC = 2% EVA. EVA and ACC were already broken to begin with in my opinion for PvP. It's why it gets such a bad rap from players who again, gear for PvP.

About their burst, while strong ( a little too strong ) it's not just "OMGWTFDIDIJUSTGETHITWITHIMDEAD!" strong if you're geared for PvP. It, along with another player or two FF'ing a Brawler would probably be difficult to heal through. But, it's why I believe that when we get premades, off-healers will be needed to better assist through spike damage ( Burst, apparently in AK ) and competitive teams will understand the reasoning for it. *Shameless plug for Sorc/Bards with full SPD build filling this role while throwing debuffs and linebacking with CC*.

And last, Eidolons. I consider Eidolons part of a players gear. Choosing one that helps a player in their role is important. Call it a Poke'mon battle if you want lol. But they're there to boost our stats, provide buffs and skills. Just an extension of our gear set ( but more annoying ) to me.  


nator316

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PostedMar 11, 2014 7:24 pm
what about duelist sub< in most games archer sub class is duelist or assassin since theyre suppose to be weak in close range.

IGN: Notaria Sorcerer/Wizard lv 5X Server: Siren Guild: Forgotten

csonka.mihaly

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PostedMar 11, 2014 7:35 pm
I'd totally go for grenadier for PvP. I barely play any PvP though...

Aristeausx1

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PostedMar 11, 2014 8:18 pm
Grenadier seems like the obvious choice in all aspects. You get 2 grenades that have a .5 second GCD, one providing a root that effects bosses, and the other a rather potent DOT effect. You also get Machine gun turret, which really can't be discounted for soloing. While it doesn't hit particularly hard on its on, over the course of its uptime it really adds up.

Subclasses with 5% speed weapons are quite good as well, but with decent gear it should not be difficult to reach capped speed to begin with.

Subclasses with 3% crit are also quite good. Can't go wrong with free added damage.

I personally will be choosing between Grenadier, Wizard, and Duelist. They all have decent subclass weapons with *Deals bonus damage on hit* procs which are quite good in combination with food and AoE effects.

N3meister

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PostedMar 13, 2014 12:16 pm
Would like to know between Bow/GS and Bow/Gren, which one would be better of having a higher chance of surviving in PVP between them??
I saw alot pick GS as main or sub for PVP, does that mean its better than Grenadier in PVP??
GS got aim shot which reduce move SPD, but would it be pointless if against a range player??
I see someone picked Wiz because of the healing and meteor skill..would it be good in PVP tho??

farronsama

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PostedMar 13, 2014 3:41 pm
N3meister wrote:
Would like to know between Bow/GS and Bow/Gren, which one would be better of having a higher chance of surviving in PVP between them??
I saw alot pick GS as main or sub for PVP, does that mean its better than Grenadier in PVP??
GS got aim shot which reduce move SPD, but would it be pointless if against a range player??
I see someone picked Wiz because of the healing and meteor skill..would it be good in PVP tho??  


I guess I can chip in on this one. I've played WB since it came out in HK server, pre/post "nerf". As most people who have half a brain would tell you (and this applies to every class), you should pick your sub-class for the utility they bring to your main-class skill set. Having said that, I think Grenadier is much more profitable than gunslinger in PvP, but why?. Well, it's simple, you've got to think what skills can come in handy while you're fighting somebody or in fact, a group of people. (NOTE: I've always been WB/Bard, despite what people says, it still feels really good even after "nerf")

For instance, out of GS skill set you could use both traps and aimed shot (generalizing, might be more than that, but those are the important ones). Well Okay, Frost trap can be useful, but you have to remember you've got your own freezing skill, so most of the times you might've already used it, or somebody on your team might've aswell, so that's a skill wasted. Now let's say somebody charges at you and you drop a frost trap, you'll want to land the DoT trap on them so it pops while you're burning them down, but here's the thing, The time you spend dropping a trap on them, you could be using it to charge a skill and mow 'em down (since warbow has such a huge burst it shouldn't take more than 1-4 hits to kill somebody on your level range) so you could use that time you're using to place a trap to actually get away from the guy and kill him from a safe spot. Now, Aimed shot it's pretty self explainatory, you've already got a slow, if you want another one (idk if it stacks or not, but lets go with yes) then go ahead, but I don't think it's necesary considering Warbows natural huge move speed and perma slows.

Now, Grenadier. Frost Salvo is the same as Warbows freeze, maybe a bit faster since you don't charge it (imo still a waste), the stun is pretty good, it has low cd and fast cast animation, it could come in handy if you really wanted it. You've also got dots and both turrets, which also help burn a tough enemy down. Not to mention you don't have the need to get close to an enemy

Now you see, Grenadier skill set is more in Synch with Warbow pace, so IMO if you've got to choose between those two, you'd know which one I'd pick.

TL;DR: Grenadier > GS all the way bby.
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