Hi AVA Community,
in this thread i want to talk with you about the 5th June Update update, sum up why the community is mad about it and explain the reason for those changes so you understand it from Aeria's side aswell.
Everything is based on my point of view, the experiance with AVA, Aeria & you, the community.
Afterwards i'd like to see your point of view, your critism, your suggestions.
At last but not least i will point out some content / promos we got in past as i see some contradictions inthere.
I hope this thread won't turn out in some disappointment as if the feedback turns out awsome i don't expect it to stay unnoticed-
In my opinion it's a difficult topic. It won't be easy as you guys definitly have to sacrifice something in order to have a healthy AVA.
Jayden from Redduck pointed it out, this is what we want to achieve:
Of course, I DONT want A.V.A being dead like this way. Please let me communicate with Aeria and make some alternatives for this patch to satisfy all of us (Community, Aeria and us)
1st - Critism: Aeria, why is the community actually mad about the Update?
Actually, the first argument is pretty easy.
> The Community got used to the old System
Of course, it doesn't matter how terrible the change is. None is going to be happy with worse conditions. A human is a creature of habit, everything new is strange aswell.
> The prices are way too high. Both, AP & Euro prices:
- The Point of view of a normal, F2P player
The normal player has to gain 44.000,00 - 58.000,00 per month for 1 weapon only. I have no big calculations here but you really have to play daily to get 1 per month (incl. the repair costs).
Even if we exclude the repair costs there are weapons that need 1-4 mods that's about 1000,00 - 5000,00 for one time usage. If you rebuy it, you pay for them again.
We have 3 classes - get 2 weapons for 100.000,.. and believe me i don't even need to type the following stuff. Just for 2 weapons you would need to game 24/7 to collect this amount. You have to reach 20.000 supply points for 5000,00.
What do you need to do to fill 1 bar? Let's take a demolition game. Let's say you get 1500 supply points per game.
20000 (supply needed) / 1500 (supply per game Note: actually you get even less)= 13,3 games -> 13 games for a full supply.
How long do you need to play for that?
13 (games per supply up) x 20 minutes of a game = 260 minutes
260 Minutes are 4,3 hours per day for a supply. (according to trainer's supply calculations even more than 6 hours)
30 x 5.000,00 per day (playing 4,3 hours a day.. i wonder who does that) equals 150.000,00.
Are those shop weapons actually the best? Oh ye the Para is a good gun, the XM8 is aswell. But there are still equal or better AP guns around.
Is that enough? No. What else do you need?
You need to pay for armor. The best armor parts do cost 4.100,00 (EH08 Helmet) / 4.700,00 (AA07 helmet) to keep up against the full 09 armor set. However, the 09 user has still advantage over you.
Is that all? My answer is again a no. The armor is not permanent so you have to rebuy it atleast once. Now lets calculate again. Buying it 1 time: 8.800,00 (don't forget, 2 parts with a noticable disadvantage vs a full 09) Buying both parts 2 times: 17.600,00. Buying it 3 times: 26.400,00 (for a disadvantage?). If you go hardcore and start playing 4,3 hours a day forget it. According to trainer the armor lasts about 15 hours. How often do you need to rebuy it? Do the math Wink Down there i gonna calc it with 5 times.
- so a soft calculation favored to aeria: 150.000,00 (supply for playing 4,3hours a day) - only 2 guns α 2x50.000,00 = 50.000,00 - (5x8800 = 44000 armor with disadvantages) = 6.000,00
Still not all: Secondaries.
Perma pistol: Pay for the repair costs.
Or those expensive expendable guns for a good 1000 / 2000 - lets say.. ok 2.000,00 - 4000,00 for a normal casual.
-> you end up at zero .
No need to tell more. If i would calculate 1:1 asking Trainer to do that for me we would reach - counts.
> The prices are way too high. Both, AP & Euro prices:
- The AP spender
Honestly. An AP spender wants something for his money.
Now let's compare the situation right now and the situation before the patch.
Before the actual patch i could have my Permaguns and use my AP for special, rare items or other AP stuff.
Now i pay 30$ just to get a Para & a FRF2. Great.
Changes to win something in the cap shop are not big. 80% of the time you don't win anything with 10 caps so you are about to use about 30 caps or more. Not even guaranteed to win. Imagine wasting 30 caps and win nothing so 6000AP are already gone. Aeria heads, PM, maybe you'll get why people don't buy stuff in the cap shop.
I am pretty confident to tell that your statistics say about the same i gonna tell you now:
People who do not spend too much on AVA don't use the cap shop at all only the ones who have alot of money to blow do. Sad fact. Why? There is no other good / interesting content in this game. You know it's pretty obvious that people don't buy the capshop and it seems that hurts abit, your voucher events revealed it, ijjis limited capshop weapons did too, now you also know why.
Let's go on.
Now if i am a normal AP user i have to search for some other options. The best thing i could get is the 09/Iyan armor and the characters.
So, do you see the main problem? SnowShovel mentioned it already - people want interesting content. People want cosmetic items, people want some fun in the game aswell. Even after the release of those items.. with the current system people have to spend alot for nothing. Result: People just stick to their perma guns. Imo you don't see the background, the actions are radical so you are like "people use perma guns so we just make them timed" if you read the stuff above.. not that clever after all.
Also, those immense prices are not less of a problem for the AP spender.
Do you get it now? You just hurt everyone with that.
I can just speculate but it just seems you don't know all too much about the game itself.
Killing the competitive scene
Ye some people want to play this game competitive but with those timed guns they can't anymore, too expensive.
If you check the petition you'll notice some competitive gamers are on the list.
You do keep away new competitive players with that.
Don't know if you think "its ok as they don't spend much on AVA". However, just look at Soldier Front 2, competitive players are actually advertising the game. FPS games are only about competition after all.
Now i gonna tell you. I am a competitive player in past i've wasted alot of money on AVA. Check out SnowShovel, he did aswell. He also promoted this game a **** lot and bought alot of stuff. Think again, do you want to miss that? Without AVAs competitive scene i would not even play AVA.. the balanced gameplay was another reason for me and other players.
On a side note it does not apply on every game. I know the PM handles Wolfteam but you can't just compare Wolfteam to AVA.
2nd - The point of view from Aeria's side
Might be abit short compared to the parts above. But lets see.
Basically i've answered most points above already.
Many of you are mad about the patch, understandable.. but you have to look at it from another perspective. Sadly some of you do think everything in this game should be for free. It doesn't work out like that. A company has to get some money out of the game.. else it dies out like ijji or they just drop the game. AVAs condition was pretty bad during the merge and i don't think you do want the same merge again, right?
So check it out from both perspectives, we need to find a middleway to improve the situation. However we can talk about it.. but if the community gets ignored or the community tries to push something only for their own needs we won't achieve anything. Trying to get all stuff for free is actually the same as Aeria trying everything possible turning everything AP based & Pay2Win.
The reason Aeria changed it is -from my point of view again- > permanent guns do not make enough income.
It's simple: People buy the good guns like the MP7 / Veresk | Para / XM8 | FRF2 and rank up to Master Sgt. That's all. They have everything they need and do not use money on other stuff. The other guns are irrelevant as everyone wants the best guns only, to save up money.
Hence Aeria changed them into timed weapons, people have to rebuy them all the time -> more income in the long run. Every AP user has to rebuy them every month. The users on the other side can't afford them.
All outdated guns were as expensive as the good ones. Who would buy a worse car if there is a better one for the same price? So ye they lowered the prices. However.. ijji did the same. They have also reduced the prices in some promos.
3rd - Contradictions from Aerias side
There are some things i don't get.
Mostly curious about the Vasily package.
Hey, i mean you do get 2 permanent weapons after all. A Deagle.. and a Mosin Nagant. The Mosin is a really good capsule gun. I mean if Aeria / the Product Manager knows.. why the Mosin, why a good & rare capsule for perma?
The Deagle is not worth talking about but you can't get it in the shop.. and it's also permanent.
Later on they change the shop system into a timed one? I just don't get it.
..and you can still get the package. A normal.. not braindamaged AP spender will skip the FRF2 and get the Mosin, atleast i would.
If Aeria knows about AVA.
Why bashing out 20k in events? No complaints, cool - but in this situation it's weird.
20k is alot of cash Wink
Timed system. 2 Paras - a normal one for 30 days and the all wanted FAL Cannon for 30 days? Do i need to get this or is this some test period checking the statistics? Doesn't make sense having both at the same price level.
4th - Suggestions & Discussions
Would be awsome if this turns in some mature and constructive one.
Right now we do complain about Aeria, having a petition running but the GM who editted it is right. We need some suggestions in order to have some influence on the changes.
Ok maybe Aeria wants to keep the timed system. However as i said above it's way too expensive.
15.000,00 for 30 days.
8.000,00 for 15 days.
3.800,00 for 7 days.
The timed AP guns could be giving 5% supply/give extra euros, have no mod fees..
-> Keeps game balanced and people with AP might get them for the bonuses and to save up .
Still worth a discussion.. just throw in your 2 cents.
Heading - Exclusives for High Ranks, AP spenders & improving booster usage:
with that we do get High Rankers and verterans rewarded. AP spenders should feel like they are getting something for their money. Boosters are currently useless as you can get many items in an early stage of the game.
Higher gun ranks / permanent versions:
Having guns at like second Lieutenant.. maybe first Lieutenant.
Why? People have still to level for them. Maybe buying boosters or using their AP to get them earlier / getting exclusive stuff which is only aquirable using AP. The game stays balanced too.
Why are those at such a low level? Get them at like 2nd Lieutenant / 1st Lieutenant.
AP version can be bought at a duck rank.
Packages with timed capsule guns / Iyan armor / characters:
We suggested this so often. KAVA did it aswell.
Use the capsule guns Roswell guns.. and create nice packages.
Lei Pointman package!
Lei - 30 days
BlueSkull - 30 days
Deagle / Beretta Engrave.. whatever.
Iyan Armor set - 30 days
Eva Nade - 30 days
- 4.999 AP or so.. dunno, what do you think? We definitly need more variety on that request that from the devs.
Capsule Shop promos every update:
There should be promos for 1 capsule gun each month.
Lets take one of my favorites, the FG42.
Like that selected gun should get lowered caps like 250/250 or 200/200 for example.
Maybe a changed color in the shop.
Focus is on one gun only & its lowered caps make people spam it more. Profit for both sides.
Pre Release / coupon changes
Snow mentioned it already.
Coupons are a good thing.. but.. where are the items? As an AP spender the coupon items are pretty disappointing.
We need: More, exclusive coupon items. Like a cool melee, secondary, rifle for people who spend alot.
We need: Fixed coupons per capsule (get rid of the random coupons per capsule thingy)
Maybe coupons to get capsule voucher or coupons to get prerelease capsules. Maybe change the prerelease into 200/200 caps instead of invisible ones.
Will give more dedication in buying out the capsule shop.
Exclusive High Rank / gun paints / cosmetic items (suggested by the german community)
Cosmetic items like Masks, melee items, nades..
You can buy those only if you have a high ranks, not via AP.
Improves dedication to the game / people buy boosters.
Gun paints are modifications for permanent guns.
AP items like melee guns or guns you can equip only using characters (similar to the Zaytsev custom)
People buy chars more and have fancy guns - Aeria gets money, game stays balanced.
Difficult case.. i know having Permanent versions might hurt business.
But you have seen, they are expensive - yet still can keep up with the cheap Iyan armor.
So why not reducing the price? There could be various changes. Like timed based parts.
With not too high prices, please & maybe 1/2 priced expendables for competitive users.
My idea behind it: In public games people would use timed Helmets/Kevlars. (instead of the pricey expendables i've mentioned ontop)
Competitive players would buy themselves expendable stuff.. they will use those other parts for tournies only for example.
For Aeria: So why won't that hurt Aerias business? Armor will still be expensive ofc. Iyan armor has still advantages and looks cooler.
So people will still get the Iyan because all around it's better.
So.. i guess that's all for now. What do you think?
If i have something more i might add it.. though this topic took some effort.
But yeah, that's how i see the situation and as you can see there are alot of things to improve.
Nontheless.. shoot your stuff. Can't wait to hear it.