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Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8506
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedApr 05, 2013 8:04 am
akrstella wrote:
Got killed in a single combo by kaji today, with my tank spec. And he gets away really easily with his mech. I really think it just comes down to the player. Honestly. Sw's are the most annoying and dangerous players we meet. Sentinels/whippers/punishers/defenders and medics being the least of our concerns. It may be your playstyle, I don't mean this as an insult in anyway. Just, it is a sneaking class not a hand to hand combat one. Some are better at tanking, some at ambushing, some at healing.

Most painful SW's from your side in order being, Kajimaru, Kablam, Helvetica(?) and two others who I can't think off now. But one of them can be very destructive.  


Let me put it this way. I've been able to run 2 X Shadow Strikes, my entire skill lost through cooldown, on you, which requires using both fade and Ghost walk, and you still had half your HP. I literally run out of locks and stuns to throw, and everything except auto attack and Hack and Slash is on Cooldown.

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LordRapthorne

Rank 5
LordRapthorne
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Posts
4050
Location
United Kingdom
PostedApr 06, 2013 11:49 am
Simply put, the evasion system is horrible.

I believe the 9,500 EVA simply equates to 9.5% chance to evade attacks (not taking in to account the hit rate, and hit rate buffs on the people attacking you). This lack of survivability is why I stopped playing SW in closed beta and instead focused my attention on medic. Until SW can actually evade things as per the standard "assassin" class archetype, they will unfortunately always be a pretty sub-standard class with regard to PvP.

Which sucks, because SW is fun as heck to play.

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TheNinjaKitten

Rank 5
TheNinjaKitten
Joined
28 May 2011
Posts
4136
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United States
PostedApr 06, 2013 1:59 pm
Rekikyo wrote:
TheNinjaKitten wrote:
LviePlex is extremely good at balance, and it's their primary focus. All I really have to say is PvP is balanced end-game, and level 29 does not contain end-game content imo. Right now things seem a bit whopper jawed, but defenders def get more OP - assuming you really gear out; however any class can be ridiculous if they are geared and built properly.

The balance is there, and each class has their classes they are weak and strong against. It's simply about how well you can perfect the class you're playing.  


In other words, you do agree there might be some OP-ness to defender?

As for classes being strong and weak; Yes I understand that principal, and I expect it. I'm just hoping 44 doesn't feel like 29, because at 29, SW don't have enough use of EVA to be reliable. At 9500 EVA I still get blown away, and I can only use it about 1/3 of the time.

What bothers me even more, is my toon does MULTIPLES of damage over other players. I've had Core runs where my overall DPS is 1.6 Million, while the next best damage dealer, all 29, did 700k. But when I convert that damage into pvp, I feel like a fly being swatted.  

Yes, I will agree that defenders have some OP-ness, but they lack good DPS.

SWs aren't meant to be tanky, but I know a few that walk away with monster kills before dying each time. I haven't gone far enough with SWs to give my opinion of builds but I personally am not a fan of EVA.

9,500 EVA = 95% chance to evade but if you're up against someone with 150% ACC it's a bit pointless. DEF and VOID are flat defensive rates with no counter stats. My medic is built towards those stats and has nearly 4k HP. All I have to do is run in circles and heal myself while my team picks everyone off because they are busy trying to take down the healer. Razz

Ryuho102

Rank 1
Joined
06 Jan 2011
Posts
239
Location
United States
PostedApr 09, 2013 1:47 am

Re: Question for Naduron and Kitten

Class Balance.
chris.aeria wrote:
Everyone's commenting about Defenders, but as my main is also an SW, I'm more curious as to what people have to say about the SW parts of this
Rekikyo wrote:

I'm finding particularly that Shadow Walker is becoming weaker and weaker as a class.

Shadow Walker is my biggest concern. Yes, it has high PVE damage output and maneuverability.

But in pvp, Shadow walker hits around 80-800, depending on the skill. They also have the second lowest HP in the game, and are a melee class. EVA at 29 doesn't seem to help much. I have 20 seconds where I have 4500 EVA, and I have 7 seconds where I have 9500 EVA. I've actually had players kill me outright on the 9500 EVA. Furthermore, Stealth is debunkable by Sentinels as a passive, Medics as a skill, and Whippers and Defenders can totally negate it. So where's a SW's defense? It doesn't seem to have one..... yet.

What I want to know is, does EVA's increase in later skill levels, finally start to compensate for SW's lack of HP/Defense/Void? If not, it's going to become a useless melee class.

 


This is a concern of mine too, and not just in PvP, but in PvE. I've seen exactly what he's describing in PvP, and my lack of defenses is finally starting to catch up with me in PvE as well. My SW which cruised through earlier dungeons, has a very hard time in Bitter. I may re-work my skill tree today, and perhaps that will help some.  


Someone correct me if I'm wrong but no matter how high your evasion is, if some class uses a chakra skill on you and it would definitely hit unless you have some decent ch-eva too.

SB IGN: Masato (RG)Server: Valkryie

bvdlord

Rank 3
bvdlord
Joined
10 Feb 2010
Posts
1173
Location
United States
PostedApr 10, 2013 3:53 pm
i don't know about you guys, but i run a punisher and i rarely die to defenders. Like vix said, mostly its the SW's who get me with their sneaking and burst dmg(although lately, i been able to survive more after hitting lvl 29), and maybe other sents(with their vicious chakra atks) and other punishers who get me.

The defender is meant to tank and if you go toe to toe 1v1 against him, i doubt that you will win. I probably won't either on my punisher. The point of this game is for team battles and team pvp more than 1v1s in my eyes. and that is my 2 cents.

Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8506
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedApr 10, 2013 4:38 pm

Re: Question for Naduron and Kitten

Class Balance.
Naduron1 wrote:

Correct.

EVA, VOID and DEF is only for Physical Attacks, Chakra abilites will do 100% damage unless he has Charkra stats also.  


Wait .... so a CH's physical damage portion will still hit? Not just the CH damage? If that's the case, sounds like a serious issue.

Kind of like how Whipper Aoes start at their target and the radius (They should be originating from the whipper on most skills; particularly their mech skills; Sometimes Whippers can kill you from nearly 20 meters away, because their target is at 12 meters, and they use a skill with 15 meter range).

crimsonlily46

Rank 1
crimsonlily46
Joined
15 Jan 2013
Posts
320
Location
Sherbrooke Canada
PostedApr 10, 2013 4:46 pm

Re: Question for Naduron and Kitten

Class Balance.
Rekikyo wrote:
Naduron1 wrote:

Correct.

EVA, VOID and DEF is only for Physical Attacks, Chakra abilites will do 100% damage unless he has Charkra stats also.  


Wait .... so a CH's physical damage portion will still hit? Not just the CH damage? If that's the case, sounds like a serious issue.

Kind of like how Whipper Aoes start at their target and the radius (They should be originating from the whipper on most skills; particularly their mech skills; Sometimes Whippers can kill you from nearly 20 meters away, because their target is at 12 meters, and they use a skill with 15 meter range).  


Pretty sure he means that chakra damages will always do 100% unless it miss, which can only happen if the target has stacked CH-EVA, since there is no CH-Def or whatever it could be called.

hellvein6

Rank 0
hellvein6
Joined
01 Feb 2013
Posts
8
Location
Bulgaria
PostedApr 11, 2013 2:20 am
This is for most of the people that say Defenders are not as strong as (Rekikyo) says NOPE you are wrong about that i play SW i have 9-10 BIGGEST DPS in PVE but in PVP defender with 3k+ HP can kill me even if i come out of stealth and stun disable lock him and that is for about 4 seconds , for that time i get his HP to 60% he heals and gets to 85-90 % HP soooo what do i do when all my big skills are in CD ? I try to run with Fade skill but he hits me right after i stealth and that is all i DIE miserably , even without having a chance to do anything the problem is you can't make a good skill point build get items you need this is it !

Whippers when i see whipper i run Stealth and run if and that is IF i attack him i get 2-3 hits 40% HP and then i DIE STUN LOCK 12 seconds STUN tell me what i do in BG i just stay away from the fight try to get kills but over all i don't have any real role in pvp can't get close to medics sentinels catch me every time or when i get to a medic i hit him 3-4 attacks and die because some one tab targets me when i'm BEHIND HIM i mean WTF TAB TARGETING targets people and mobs behind you Aeria FIX IT or when enemy is right next to me i tab to target him BOOM i target the medic that is behind every person the the BG ...

Wiesior

Rank 1
Joined
30 Oct 2012
Posts
230
Location
Poland
PostedApr 12, 2013 2:36 am
hellvein6 wrote:
This is for most of the people that say Defenders are not as strong as (Rekikyo) says NOPE you are wrong about that i play SW i have 9-10 BIGGEST DPS in PVE but in PVP defender with 3k+ HP can kill me even if i come out of stealth and stun disable lock him and that is for about 4 seconds , for that time i get his HP to 60% he heals and gets to 85-90 % HP soooo what do i do when all my big skills are in CD ? I try to run with Fade skill but he hits me right after i stealth and that is all i DIE miserably , even without having a chance to do anything the problem is you can't make a good skill point build get items you need this is it !

Whippers when i see whipper i run Stealth and run if and that is IF i attack him i get 2-3 hits 40% HP and then i DIE STUN LOCK 12 seconds STUN tell me what i do in BG i just stay away from the fight try to get kills but over all i don't have any real role in pvp can't get close to medics sentinels catch me every time or when i get to a medic i hit him 3-4 attacks and die because some one tab targets me when i'm BEHIND HIM i mean WTF TAB TARGETING targets people and mobs behind you Aeria FIX IT or when enemy is right next to me i tab to target him BOOM i target the medic that is behind every person the the BG ...  


Your job as SW is kill healers, punishers and sentinels, not whippers and defenders. You are not serious if you want use a assassins to kill front line classes.
And SW doing her job well - killing range classes and healers quickly if only find hole in defence.
Issue is with defenders what are unable to hold the line. The defence stats is simply far too weak and spam of range classes is too strong.
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