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fuzzycat1989

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fuzzycat1989
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PostedApr 04, 2013 5:04 am
Just to input my opinion here. Someone said in a previous few posts about defenders being able to play multiple roles. I understand that as defender's skill tree doesn't have many skills so as level cap increase defender would be able to max out both defense and offense (maybe a bit trade off with aggro skill).

The role of Defender in PvE is undeniable. Only a defender in mech would be able to hold aggro off other DPS. Without a properly spec'ed defender into tanking and aggro holding, it literally takes my punisher 5 seconds to draw aggro of any mob in a party run and it ends up with my punisher being the main tank.

I'm also playing Whipper too. Although Whipper has less HP than Defender, she has way more defense. However, whipper's damage on single target is quite average and her aggro skill is just insufficient. I doubt any whipper would invest significantly both into defense passive, ultimate soul shield and the 2nd aggro skill (after hook and sink). If she does that her damage output will suffer. Note that whipper's mech has 0 aggro skill and her normal aggro skills have cd of 15s and 25s, totally not enough, and all that defense will go to waste as the Whipper will not be tanking the boss.

Defensive capability wise, Defender and Whipper are indeed capable of withstanding 10-20 people attacking at once if they only use the raw damage skills. However, it's the particle, gravity and plasma damage that are problematic. Unlike defender, a whipper would only have 2.5-3.5k HP at lvl 29 and 4-5k in mech form. If she's hit by any DoT or attacked by SW/Sentinel with their particle attacks, she would literally melt.
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chris.aeria

Elite Founder: Scarlet Blade
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PostedApr 04, 2013 9:48 am

Re: Question for Naduron and Kitten

Class Balance.
Everyone's commenting about Defenders, but as my main is also an SW, I'm more curious as to what people have to say about the SW parts of this
Rekikyo wrote:

I'm finding particularly that Shadow Walker is becoming weaker and weaker as a class.

Shadow Walker is my biggest concern. Yes, it has high PVE damage output and maneuverability.

But in pvp, Shadow walker hits around 80-800, depending on the skill. They also have the second lowest HP in the game, and are a melee class. EVA at 29 doesn't seem to help much. I have 20 seconds where I have 4500 EVA, and I have 7 seconds where I have 9500 EVA. I've actually had players kill me outright on the 9500 EVA. Furthermore, Stealth is debunkable by Sentinels as a passive, Medics as a skill, and Whippers and Defenders can totally negate it. So where's a SW's defense? It doesn't seem to have one..... yet.

What I want to know is, does EVA's increase in later skill levels, finally start to compensate for SW's lack of HP/Defense/Void? If not, it's going to become a useless melee class.

 


This is a concern of mine too, and not just in PvP, but in PvE. I've seen exactly what he's describing in PvP, and my lack of defenses is finally starting to catch up with me in PvE as well. My SW which cruised through earlier dungeons, has a very hard time in Bitter. I may re-work my skill tree today, and perhaps that will help some.

crimsonlily46

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PostedApr 04, 2013 11:44 am

Re: Question for Naduron and Kitten

Class Balance.
Naduron1 wrote:
For exempel:
Sentinel with Chakra DPS build can easily solo defenders and Whipper, even with hybrids spec should be enough for lvl 29 to defeat them in 1vs1.  


Could you link me to a chakra build for a 39cap? I've been wondering how such build would look like.

Zaebja

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PostedApr 04, 2013 12:46 pm
Whipper is amazing 1v1s and kind of ok in PvP without mech but most of us in BG just end up suiciding with our mech on to get points and kills which does work out with a medic.

Defenders can tank a boat load more than a whipper. I've only seen a whipper get as high as 3500 hp but a defender with over 5000.

A SW can hurt/kill anyone badly and quickly but if anyone can take the hit of their first few moves the SW is kind of done for as they wait for their skills to relaod ;x I hope the SW does get better later on.

Not really addressing anyone just throwing it out there.

IGN: Zaebja <Curse> | Whipper Guide Soon to be Edited

Rekikyo

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PostedApr 04, 2013 5:10 pm
akrstella wrote:

Now I'm going to show you something, if you don't mind. Sorry if it's not processed yet.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3xSgTGqWFDs

In this video, you can see me in my old dps spec. Yes, my hp is lower. But bare in mind this SW had a +4 weapon if not lower, and my armor has not changed much since then. (Hi Kaji!)
Kaji is one of the most pain in the *** SW's I've came across, he plays his class very sneakily. He walks in my shadows and kills his targets off-guard, which is exactly what assassin gameplay is all about. Now in my tank spec, this doesn't really happen anymore. But he can easily get away, stealth and attack me off-guard again as my damage isn't high enough to burst him down in time. (Unless I mech and don't mess up.)
I'm not using this video to prove a my entire point, as he did use his ult. But it goes to show that defenders can die without an army.  


If you look closely at your video, Kaji didn't do most of the damage. He did the final hit. The Sentinel in her Kali was hitting for 190's repeatedly with her mech ultimate. Kaji just got the last hit in.

It's nice to know that Higher Iron Wall gives more of a penalty the higher it goes, rather than less.

@ Naduron: see.... this is what concerns me. When I 1v1 A whipper, I can fight on par with them, because my damage outstrips theirs while their defense outstrips mine. We typically get down to 200-400 HP worth of difference in a fight. Same with Sentinel; I fight on par with them. Punisher too. Medic I can beat pretty well, but that's to be expected vs a non combat class.

But If I were to 1v1 a Defender, The defender is like a god. Even with a tank build, their damage output is sizeable. At 25k, a Shadow Walker will be lucky to take it down 1/5 in a duel.

I could understand if the difference was maybe 2/3, which would imply 2 players were needed to beat the tank, but 1/5 is a major difference.

I also wouldn't call Chakra an exclusive weakness either. Sentinel's Chakra abilities dominate Shadow Walkers as well.

akrstella

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PostedApr 04, 2013 5:57 pm
It may appear that way, but it's all Kaji, I have about six more of these with the exact same thing happening. (wanted to make a compilation :p) with no one else attacking me.

Posted By Aeria Mobile

TheNinjaKitten

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PostedApr 04, 2013 9:28 pm
LviePlex is extremely good at balance, and it's their primary focus. All I really have to say is PvP is balanced end-game, and level 29 does not contain end-game content imo. Right now things seem a bit whopper jawed, but defenders def get more OP - assuming you really gear out; however any class can be ridiculous if they are geared and built properly.

The balance is there, and each class has their classes they are weak and strong against. It's simply about how well you can perfect the class you're playing.

Rekikyo

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PostedApr 05, 2013 3:41 am
Naduron1 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:

I also wouldn't call Chakra an exclusive weakness either. Sentinel's Chakra abilities dominate Shadow Walkers as well.  


Using Chakra DPS spec on a Shadow Walker is not smart :p

Shadow Walker has one of the highest Chakra protection of all classes so using a Chakra Spec on a Shadow walker so will the Sentinel lose.

Defender in the other hand has Insane high physical protection, BUT they have 0 Chakra protect.
The only protection they have against Chakra is a buff that last for around 5 seconds, which doesn't help mutch.
So all your chakra abilites will do 100-90% damage on him while the physical will only do 30-20%

Shadow Walker has 2 Abilites that has very high Chakra damage so you should be able to kill a Defender with 3.5k HP if i can kill him with a Hybrid spec Sentinel.
Remember that you must have high Eva, HP, Chakra DMG and Crit if you are going to make a anti-tank spec.

but this guide only works at low level, you won't be able to solo them at lvl 40+, you will need at least 2-3 players to take down a Defender.  


Where do you get this idea that SW has a high CH defense? We have CH-EVA skills that can only be used 1/3 of the time. There's no actual "resistance" skill. And atm I have 580 Resistance to Voltage 80 to Gravity, and 200 to particle from trinkets, but sentinels still hit me hard on Chakra attacks.

Shadow Walker only has one skill that deviates from average Chakra damage btw: Shadow Dance. Every other skill I have list CH ATK at 134-180. Shadow Dance 404- 548.

As for gear:



I don't know about you, but I don't think there's exactly too many ways to improve upon it at this time. I do have Bangles with both min and Max CH attack, which would be more offensive than these ones. I also have gloves that have Crit, Defense, and CH-ACC, but again, it's not a huge difference.

There are defenders even medics, who can survive this gear atm, without even having half as good gear. And it's not that I don't know how to play either; I can PVE team bosses almost solo. Until School started up this week, I was also ranked #7 overall pvper on our server. Now I've fallen to 16. Point is, I doubt it's nubness, and it's certainly not gear. But I feel like SW has plateau'd atm, and unless I have 8 enhances versus other people's 6-7, I seem to be getting consistently beaten by classes that shouldn't be able to do that consistently. (I don't care about losing sometimes, but when you lose all the time to those classes....)

Rekikyo

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PostedApr 05, 2013 3:47 am
TheNinjaKitten wrote:
LviePlex is extremely good at balance, and it's their primary focus. All I really have to say is PvP is balanced end-game, and level 29 does not contain end-game content imo. Right now things seem a bit whopper jawed, but defenders def get more OP - assuming you really gear out; however any class can be ridiculous if they are geared and built properly.

The balance is there, and each class has their classes they are weak and strong against. It's simply about how well you can perfect the class you're playing.  


In other words, you do agree there might be some OP-ness to defender?

As for classes being strong and weak; Yes I understand that principal, and I expect it. I'm just hoping 44 doesn't feel like 29, because at 29, SW don't have enough use of EVA to be reliable. At 9500 EVA I still get blown away, and I can only use it about 1/3 of the time.

What bothers me even more, is my toon does MULTIPLES of damage over other players. I've had Core runs where my overall DPS is 1.6 Million, while the next best damage dealer, all 29, did 700k. But when I convert that damage into pvp, I feel like a fly being swatted.

akrstella

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PostedApr 05, 2013 6:06 am
Got killed in a single combo by kaji today, with my tank spec. And he gets away really easily with his mech. I really think it just comes down to the player. Honestly. Sw's are the most annoying and dangerous players we meet. Sentinels/whippers/punishers/defenders and medics being the least of our concerns. It may be your playstyle, I don't mean this as an insult in anyway. Just, it is a sneaking class not a hand to hand combat one. Some are better at tanking, some at ambushing, some at healing.

Most painful SW's from your side in order being, Kajimaru, Kablam, Helvetica(?) and two others who I can't think off now. But one of them can be very destructive.
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