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Chan375

Rank 3
Chan375
Joined
17 May 2007
Posts
1474
Location
United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 1:12 pm
It's not the stat points that make the difference, they don't matter, they are easy enough to overcome... the rank stat pointed added to the base stat points increase that, but still can be overcome... but then you get into the UM only skills... that's where many classes run into problems. HM healers (though lacking EB) and war/fighters can do decent, though will always have a disadvantage. Other classes will loose a lot, no one wants to be in the party with DF1, and although I don't know rogue skills at all well, I hear hm sins are just about useless.

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DarkSakimaru

Rank 4
DarkSakimaru
Joined
03 Dec 2007
Posts
2833
Location
Croatia
PostedMar 03, 2013 1:17 pm
in 1-15 HM's can be competitive as UM's because no stats for rank.Only stat difference is that 28 points less.In canta there is also a rank so eeh, i guess it could pass..But in endgame its a NO NO

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
Joined
13 Aug 2008
Posts
10653
Location
United Kingdom
PostedMar 03, 2013 2:28 pm
MITSUNARI44 wrote:
In a 1 on 1 Duel between a UM and an HM, With the :

1-Same level .

2- Same Class .

3-More Importantly the Same Gear [ Link/Ench ] .

4-Same Game Experience .

UM Will Always Win 100 % to 0 ! Otherwise u can't really tel who can win if one of the above conditions are missed [ Especially 3 , even Experience cant Compete if the gear upgrade difference is too much ]  
Lolwhut? Do you even know what you are talking about?

I was able to take down UMs far stronger than myself in far better gear due to 2 things.

Skill. (knowing what skill to use in what order for maximum effeminacy)

Luck (not the skill luck, getting lucky with debuffs in general)

You hit a slow debuff then suddenly you have an Edge, if your GS hits and theirs misses you win, its that simple. If your debuff wep hits and theirs doesn't you win.

Give a nub the same gear you have on his UM and your HM will destroy him because he hasn't a clue what to use and when (Experience) so you are wrong there as well.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

mclovin365

Rank 4
mclovin365
Joined
13 Jun 2008
Posts
2170
Location
Hell United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 2:33 pm
it comes down to these variables:

1. level - in end game the difference is large enough that it, if the other variables do not compensate, the HM will always lose.

2. gears - gears can compensate for almost any difference between HM and UM. if the UM has better gear then the HM stands no chance, but if the HM has better gear then there is a chance.

3. experience - in a fair battle with equal gear and in lower level the HM will win if he has more experience. this is not enough of a difference to work in end game.

4. luck - there are so many things in this game (debuff lapis, dex, luc, etc etc etc) that in the end luck will overcome almost all things.

off the top of my head those are the only variables I can think of, but yea... lots of variables but in a perfectly even match, the UM will always win, even in low levels the UM still has a high chance of victory in an even match, with it eventually coming down to luck.

EDIT: forgot to mention build. in an even match your build (including how you lapised your gear, as well as your base stats and buff skills) can make a big difference)

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
Joined
13 Aug 2008
Posts
10653
Location
United Kingdom
PostedMar 03, 2013 2:34 pm
mclovin365 wrote:
it comes down to these variables:

1. level - in end game the difference is large enough that it, if the other variables do not compensate, the HM will always lose.

2. gears - gears can compensate for almost any difference between HM and UM. if the UM has better gear then the HM stands no chance, but if the HM has better gear then there is a chance.

3. experience - in a fair battle with equal gear and in lower level the HM will win if he has more experience. this is not enough of a difference to work in end game.

4. luck - there are so many things in this game (debuff lapis, dex, luc, etc etc etc) that in the end luck will overcome almost all things.

off the top of my head those are the only variables I can think of, but yea... lots of variables but in a perfectly even match, the UM will always win, even in low levels the UM still has a high chance of victory in an even match, with it eventually coming down to luck.  
Read my post above yours.

In an Even match Luck is 'the' factor, at level 30, 60 stat points means sweet F. A. in canta.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

mclovin365

Rank 4
mclovin365
Joined
13 Jun 2008
Posts
2170
Location
Hell United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 3:01 pm
Killa_1112 wrote:
mclovin365 wrote:
it comes down to these variables:

1. level - in end game the difference is large enough that it, if the other variables do not compensate, the HM will always lose.

2. gears - gears can compensate for almost any difference between HM and UM. if the UM has better gear then the HM stands no chance, but if the HM has better gear then there is a chance.

3. experience - in a fair battle with equal gear and in lower level the HM will win if he has more experience. this is not enough of a difference to work in end game.

4. luck - there are so many things in this game (debuff lapis, dex, luc, etc etc etc) that in the end luck will overcome almost all things.

off the top of my head those are the only variables I can think of, but yea... lots of variables but in a perfectly even match, the UM will always win, even in low levels the UM still has a high chance of victory in an even match, with it eventually coming down to luck.  
Read my post above yours.

In an Even match Luck is 'the' factor, at level 30, 60 stat points means sweet F. A. in canta.  


i saw your post which is why i added in luck, I didn't even think of luck at first. but even luck can not get a lvl 30 to kill a lvl 80, so it does have it's limitations.

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
Joined
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Posts
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United Kingdom
PostedMar 03, 2013 3:07 pm   Last edited by Killa_1112 on Mar 04, 2013 6:48 am. Edited 1 time in total
mclovin365 wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
mclovin365 wrote:
it comes down to these variables:

1. level - in end game the difference is large enough that it, if the other variables do not compensate, the HM will always lose.

2. gears - gears can compensate for almost any difference between HM and UM. if the UM has better gear then the HM stands no chance, but if the HM has better gear then there is a chance.

3. experience - in a fair battle with equal gear and in lower level the HM will win if he has more experience. this is not enough of a difference to work in end game.

4. luck - there are so many things in this game (debuff lapis, dex, luc, etc etc etc) that in the end luck will overcome almost all things.

off the top of my head those are the only variables I can think of, but yea... lots of variables but in a perfectly even match, the UM will always win, even in low levels the UM still has a high chance of victory in an even match, with it eventually coming down to luck.  
Read my post above yours.

In an Even match Luck is 'the' factor, at level 30, 60 stat points means sweet F. A. in canta.  


i saw your post which is why i added in luck, I didn't even think of luck at first. but even luck can not get a lvl 30 to kill a lvl 80, so it does have it's limitations.  
Dex being the major one.

I saw a 30 canta pvper, Arguably the best if not one of the best there has ever been Name RatchA_ Take down a goddess pvper. A half decent one too.

the limit comes from the hit raito dex that comes with leveling but popping a conc noss can facor this out, if that was not a factor i would not be surprised if some 30 pvpers were stronger than some ex-goddess pvpers.

But as the stats get larger in bulk, the stats gaind from UM also gets slammed.

Kit out a level 80 in canta gear and pit a hm v UM and you couldn't tell the difference. The only major factor in 80 is gear type, some gear can't be equipped to HMs but can be on UMs.

PS: There is also pvp rank to consider.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

mclovin365

Rank 4
mclovin365
Joined
13 Jun 2008
Posts
2170
Location
Hell United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 3:41 pm
Killa_1112 wrote:
mclovin365 wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
mclovin365 wrote:
it comes down to these variables:

1. level - in end game the difference is large enough that it, if the other variables do not compensate, the HM will always lose.

2. gears - gears can compensate for almost any difference between HM and UM. if the UM has better gear then the HM stands no chance, but if the HM has better gear then there is a chance.

3. experience - in a fair battle with equal gear and in lower level the HM will win if he has more experience. this is not enough of a difference to work in end game.

4. luck - there are so many things in this game (debuff lapis, dex, luc, etc etc etc) that in the end luck will overcome almost all things.

off the top of my head those are the only variables I can think of, but yea... lots of variables but in a perfectly even match, the UM will always win, even in low levels the UM still has a high chance of victory in an even match, with it eventually coming down to luck.  
Read my post above yours.

In an Even match Luck is 'the' factor, at level 30, 60 stat points means sweet F. A. in canta.  


i saw your post which is why i added in luck, I didn't even think of luck at first. but even luck can not get a lvl 30 to kill a lvl 80, so it does have it's limitations.  
Dex being the major one.

I saw a 30 canta pvper, Arguably the best if not one of the best there has ever been Name RatchA_ Take down a goddess pvper. A half decent one too.

the limit comes from the hit raito dex that comes with leveling but popping a conc noss can facor this out, if that was not a factor i would not be surprised if some 30 pvpers were stronger than some ex-goddess pvpers.

But as the stats get larger in bulk, the stats gaind from UM also gets slammer.

Kit out a level 80 in canta gear and pit a hm v UM and you couldn't tell the difference. The only major factor in 80 is gear type, some gear can't be equipped to HMs but can be on UMs.

PS: There is also pvp rank to consider.  


that's true, and that's where build comes into consideration. i forgot about pvp rank, though that is no indication of skill the extra stat points do help.

evan713

Rank 5
evan713
Joined
20 Jul 2010
Posts
4348
Location
United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 3:55 pm
1-15, canta ill give you luck, right ele ds at start ect.. end game even everything but skill, skill takes it.

LoDebar

Rank 3
LoDebar
Joined
10 Aug 2008
Posts
950
Location
Rekikyo's Neighbor United States
PostedMar 03, 2013 4:17 pm
In this game it is all about gear. It is that simple. A NM can dance with a UM if the NM's gear was better than the UMs gear. It doesn't matter what zone you are in.

You buy gear with AP and spend AP to upgrade the gear. He who spends the most will win.

UM's have more stat points than HMs or NMs, so there is a stat point advantage. But there are some many ways to buy all the stat points you want, all you have to do is get the best gear. The only time there will be any noticeable difference between NM, HM, UM is when they have equal level, rank, and gear. Then you will notice the UM advantage. But then again the higher the level you get, the more stat points you have in your gear, the smaller the stat percentage from HM/UM difference becomes so just in the random part of critical hits, many people probably won't even notice the difference.

It is all about the gear.

This game is designed for the wallet warriors.
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