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Warste

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Warste
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PostedMar 05, 2013 10:03 am
Great post! But ive to say that u just wasted ur time doing it.

Aeria dont care if u have a good time or not, dont care if u use ur online timing Socializing and having fun or just grinding like a slave, as long as u give them profit.

I wish this post would do something, but 99.99% sure nothing gonna change. and if something changes, wont benefit the players.
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sweetxdevil357

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PostedMar 05, 2013 11:30 am
Warste wrote:
Great post! But ive to say that u just wasted ur time doing it.

Aeria dont care if u have a good time or not, dont care if u use ur online timing Socializing and having fun or just grinding like a slave, as long as u give them profit.

I wish this post would do something, but 99.99% sure nothing gonna change. and if something changes, wont benefit the players.  


GMObspho wrote:
gcxu: Thank you very much for this well-written, thoughtful post. This is precisely the type of post we look for when seeking feedback from our playerbase.

While we can't give a definitive response to this suggestion at this time, we will absolutely be reviewing it. We'd like to ask other players to continue providing constructive, mature feedback to this thread.

As one minor point- we do request that players avoid requesting that a GM read their post in our forum guidelines. We will read the thread regardless, and we'd rather not have a forum full of threads asking for a GM. Other than that one minor issue, great post!
 


Getting a GM to reply to this thread was good enough. Who knows? Maybe this will actually see the light.

Mocarze

GameSage: Eden Eternal
Mocarze
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PostedMar 05, 2013 12:18 pm
GMObspho wrote:
gcxu: Thank you very much for this well-written, thoughtful post. This is precisely the type of post we look for when seeking feedback from our playerbase.

While we can't give a definitive response to this suggestion at this time, we will absolutely be reviewing it. We'd like to ask other players to continue providing constructive, mature feedback to this thread.

As one minor point- we do request that players avoid requesting that a GM read their post in our forum guidelines. We will read the thread regardless, and we'd rather not have a forum full of threads asking for a GM. Other than that one minor issue, great post!
 


Great to see some GM interaction ^_^ You want some more specific feedback? Sure thing!

Safety Stones, the regular variety, flow into the game at a level that won't kill the player base, but is still low enough that an increase would greatly benefit a lot of people. The problems I see the most are with the Halcyon/Sublime Safety Stones, which is where the real lack starts to show.

Thanks~

i.spartan

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i.spartan
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PostedMar 05, 2013 2:23 pm
love the post, this is really great ^.^

glad that prices on sapphire are slightly more stable xD prices dont go 20k for a csss Smile

anyhow only criticism i have for this is kind of random...

A Modest proposal is a satirical piece by jonathan swift about eating babies as a solution to the irish potato famine...... xD

great post!
+1

P.S. EC's will go up and i personally am fine with that... look @ the taiwanese servers, they have awesome altars but their ec's go for ALOT more then ours (probably comepletely uncurrent estimate but like 500gish?) safeties instead of blue/gold ec's would be really nice xD
even if the ones @ end of altar were nt or somthing

gcxu

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PostedMar 05, 2013 2:53 pm   Last edited by gcxu on Mar 05, 2013 4:23 pm. Edited 5 times in total

In depth explanation of why the prices of EC will raise

hopefully it makes sense =X
AriaSaitcho wrote:
gcxu wrote:



  • Increase in Sales:
    Safety stones are essential to the growth of the players. Thus it will always be in demand, regardless of how many new or old players you have. These stones will take priority over any wings or costume on the market, as its effect are not purely cosmetic. Also, this does not hurt the market of costume and primes, as players will return to buying cosmetic items when they become stronger.


Concerns about increasing sales of safety stones:


  • Increase in costumes and eden crystal prices:
    This is perhaps the only negative result due to a possible increase in safety stones. If safety stones ends up in the altar, eden crystal during those times will be more expensive, because the rewards are so much greater. Also, costumes are most likely going to fluctuate a lot. Players who are trying to get strong won't buy primes, because they need money for safety stones. But at the same time, players who are already strong will pay more for primes they want, because they have nothing left to spend on.

 


These two points contradict each other. You could have been more clear that the true point of the first is that long term prices will remain, more or less the same. And the point of the second is that short term prices will fluctuate wildly.

Other than that, well written and +1  


Thank you for pointing out this point. You are right... to some degree. In the short run there will be large fluctuation in prices of primes, but prices overall for costumes and EC will increase in the long run, until other factors change it otherwise.

Prices of EC will increase because supply of costumes is swallowed up by increase in demand of safety stones, meaning players choose stones over costumes to sell/use. However as the game progress and players demand of safety stones isn't as high due to availability, the increase in demand for costumes will increase supply. However, eden crystal prices will remain higher than before as players grow and become stronger, thus obtaining more means to make money.

But haven't you neglected the impact that increase prices of EC pushes out some players, because they can't afford to play it? Yes that is true, increase of price in EC will push out some players, but at the same time the increase in price also represents increase in value, thus increasing the pool of "rich" players. This increase in value will entice more players of bigger cash pool to play, as the returns to value is higher than before. Meaning the amount of costumes and EC bought and sold will still be the same, just at a higher price.

Below I provided an in depth explanation:

Lets start with who are the players in the market:

EC sellers: Those who sell EC for gold, having no intention of gambling with EC
Gamblers: Those who buy EC with gold, having the intention to get something from altar to re-sell or use the goods.
Hawks: Those who are risk-adverse (don't like to gamble) and want to buy altar goodies from Gamblers, having the intention to use or re-sell the goods.

Given that safety stones are always in demand due to them being an essential part of players' growth,if safety stones were put into the altar, especially safety stones of different variant at a lower row (say a UHSS on the 5th row or 6th row), prices of eden crystal will increase. This may also convert Hawks/EC sellers to become gamblers, as the value of safety stones may entice them to gamble a little. Thus increasing demand for EC and reducing the amount available in the market.

Keeping with that thought process, eden crystals will eventually raise in price, because players will anticipate and hold eden crystal to sell on a good altar. Prices would raise not only because players hold onto eden crystal, thus decreasing supply, but would also raise because the expected value of eden crystal will increase due to the anticipation of a safety stone altar. While prices may eventually flatten out to a new market equilibrium, prices of eden crystal will ONLY drop down in the long run IF the player base increases to increase supply (in a free market, competition drives prices down) OR there is a change in game mechanic, that takes away player income(say 1p gets removed or something dynamic like that).

The price increase of eden crystals will drive up prime prices in the altar, because the eden crystal cost more. Players will charge more for primes, because the cost to profit ratio has now decreased. Say the average prime costume on altar takes around 60 eden crystal to obtain. Prior to the patch (where players income increase due to better equip, 1p, and etc), eden crystals were 65g and sold primes for 2k. This generates a negative profit of -1.9k (which is true, altar is a loss like 90% of the time). Now lets look at it post patch, eden crystal is now 110g each. If players sold primes for the same price at 2k, their profit would now be -4.6k. However this is not the case, primes (costumes) now sell for an average of 4k. While this doesn't show that players are profit maximizing, it does show that players are aware of the market and its changes.

Lastly, players who are already strong and risk-adversed (and have nothing to do with their money) will contribute to the price of prime costume (sometime). While prime costumes like jailbird or alchemist suit may not change in prices much (due to their appearance) primes such as mysterious hoodies will increase in price with the increasing growth of players every week. Blunty put: Elites have the power to increase price of primes at anytime, which sometimes increase the value of EC/primes dramatically.

In short:

Safety stones in altar increases EC prices > Players hold EC and sell at higher price for the next altar with safety stones/good primes + Hawks/EC sellers turn to gamblers to further decrease supply and increase demand of EC > Combination of higher expected value/reduced in supply of EC DRIVES UP EC prices > Primes are thus sold for more as players adjust to the increases in price of EC > Primes raising in value further increases the appreciation of EC > Driving up EC prices again

^this process will continue to happen until a market equilibrium is reached. Where sellers will sell at a price that offers them the most returns WITHOUT driving away buyers to other sellers.

So you are probably wondering why wouldn't safety stones increase in prices due eden crystal increasing in prices? The current price inflation of special safety stones is a result of limited supply rather than increase in eden crystal prices. We established this point in the first post, where an increase in supply will reduce prices of safety stones at all level. If we look back at the picture in Fig 3, this will be represented by the supply curve shifting out, decreasing prices and increasing quantity. While the increase in price of EC may eventually drive away some of the hawks and EC sellers from gambling, the increase in supply of safety stones effect the prices much more than the increase in price of eden crystal.

Intuitively speaking: Yes EC may cost 150g now, but a CSS is worth 10k and if you are one of those lucky people that can roll and get it with in 40 or 50 ec, thats profit. If everyone thinks that way, supply will eventually increase where sellers can undercut each other, i.e. 1 guy sells for 10k, but the next guy says 9k. Buyers recognize this and buys for 9k. Sellers will sell at 9k b/c there is still profit to be made.

So long run and short run prices of EC will increase (by a bit) as a result of an altar that has safety stones, especially if special safety stones are put on a lower tier. Prices will only drop if demand for safety stones decrease or the an increase in supply of eden crystal via more AP buyers drawn from a bigger player base.

So in a very long winded way of explaining things... it doesn't hurt the market of primes and crystal, it hurts the people who wants to buy cheap primes and cheap EC. That is perhaps the only negative I see (from a consumers standpoint), that I need to spend more for EC and primes now. But the amount of primes and EC sold will be the same, possibility even more than before.

gcxu

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PostedMar 05, 2013 3:08 pm
GMObspho wrote:
gcxu: Thank you very much for this well-written, thoughtful post. This is precisely the type of post we look for when seeking feedback from our playerbase.

While we can't give a definitive response to this suggestion at this time, we will absolutely be reviewing it. We'd like to ask other players to continue providing constructive, mature feedback to this thread.

As one minor point- we do request that players avoid requesting that a GM read their post in our forum guidelines. We will read the thread regardless, and we'd rather not have a forum full of threads asking for a GM. Other than that one minor issue, great post!
 


First and foremost I would like to apologize for the double post, but I felt that explanation was long enough already... so I just want to say "Thank You" for the attention AND support this thread has received.

Also addressing GMObspho concern, I changed the subtext under the title of the post to excluded specific people XD. The thread wasn't directly targeted toward GM, GS, or PMs, I just wanted everyone (whether big or small) to be aware of the situation and hopefully, together, we can reach some sort of positive change.

P.S. I am also aware that this post follows the satirical piece by Swift, but I kept the name because I felt it was a suitable title for what I wanted to achieve XD. But in case anyone wants to draw parallels between this thread and Swift's work, I would like to state that this thread has true and serious intentions XD.

P.P.S I also added one extra point to the original post. But if you don't want to search for it, here is the reader's digest. Safety stones needs to be on the altar to prevent collusion of AP buyers, thus the prevention of monopoly prices. It doesn't help the market if there is more safety stones, but they are still charging 10k per CSS =\

frankiejay808

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06 Mar 2013
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United States
PostedMar 06, 2013 2:01 am
ss somewere in the range of 200g now lol I find it kinda insulting all of sudden they add it to the buy ap deal we will give u your ss for free. Don't know if this was posted before or after the altar was put up on monday but is it about time you give people what they want?

Synphie

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PostedMar 06, 2013 6:54 am
Well, we have a SS altar right now.

SapphireMiku

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PostedMar 06, 2013 7:43 am   Last edited by SapphireMiku on Mar 06, 2013 7:45 am. Edited 1 time in total
While a SS altar may be enough to adjust prices to a reasonable level temporarily, unless they run a SS altar on a common basis, prices will just go insanely high like they did before.

If I may make a commendation; I would like to see the permanent replacement of the Blue EC on row 3 and Gold EC on row 5, and change it into a single SS (while keeping the same % chance to roll that column on the row).

Why?

  • This would greatly improve the altar as you now have a 100% chance to get something from a Blue EC or Gold EC on the 3rd and 5th rows. It's very common to roll a Blue EC from a Blue EC on these rows, and this mechanic of the game has turned me off personally to ever buying any AP to roll ECs. Even when it's in your own line of judgement, you still get a bitter taste in your mouth when you roll that Blue EC on row 3 after the 10 EC you spent to get it.

    However, if the Blue/Gold EC on rows 3 & 5 are changed into a SS, you are at least rewarded with some sort of prize when you accumulate enough Blue/Gold EC's. You can then either take a SS, Prize, or risk going further up the altar. This would not change any mechanics of the alter, it would simply remove getting a Direct Blue EC to Blue EC on that specific row (3 & 5). Having a "complimentary prize" of sorts, would at least give a small boost of morale to the altar.

  • While it doesn't look like a huge change, this small modification would add a slow steady stream of SS into the game. Every time you gain a Gold or Blue EC you would have a decent chance to get a SS from the altar, which would be beneficial for EC gamblers and the community as a whole.

  • This would be very popular with altar gamblers and those who purchase AP, because now they are rewarded heavily for buying EC's and rolling them. They can guarantee that after rolling hundreds or thousands of EC's they are going to walk away with at least a few SS at a minimum, when they would previously only be rewarded with a few Blue/Gold EC.

  • This doesn't hurt the current mechanic of the altar. Currently when you roll a blue EC on row 3, you lose all your current EC and only gain 1 Blue EC. With the new system, you would gain 0 Blue EC but a single SS instead as a "you got something you can sell for more EC to roll" prize.


Just a personal opinion, but I think a small change such as the one listed above would benefit the game as a whole in the long run.

Synphie

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PostedMar 06, 2013 7:45 am
There's still that common Row 4 trap (1 EC and an end item) once in every altar though, but we can't complain about that...

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