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one2five

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 5:56 am

Additional PvP incentives

How to make it fair?
GM Mokona's post from January mentioned that the GM team were considering offering additional prizes for the top 5 per class as an incentive to pvp, but were considering which bracket is the fairest/most balanced for such a thing. I'm assuming here that this issue as held them back from implementing this change (since we haven't heard anything for over a month), and hope we may look at this issue together as a community.

The issues are perhaps these:


-MVP/Slayer Rankings: These depend indirectly on how often arena starts. The assumption is that the reward will make arenas start more often, but if it is mvp/slayer based, any quick glance at the ranking shows lvl 30 and lvl 40 pvp have huge advantages here, simply because their arenas start more. Lvl 30 has an additional advantage in the Slayer Ranking, simply because the only arena in that bracket is FA which as an arena style favours killing. This incentive may not work, or be even counterproductive in facilitating arenas in the 90 bracket, simply because the disadvantage from this point of view is perceived as too great from the start. Additionally, the Slayer Rank doesn't include Clerics/PP/Saints.

-Saints Ranking: Only confined to two classes (Cleric/PP/Saint, Sage/Mystic/Shaman).

-Destroyer Ranking: Measures Highest xtal dmg in 1 game. Very liable to exploitation, and not a great incentive either, because if someone scores a particularly high score in 1 game they may no longer feel the need to pvp. The first point is paramout, however, because an additional reward based on this category would revive a great wave of exploitation in this category. This ranking seems the least well suited for the issue at hand.

-God of War Ranking: Based on player dmg in 1 game. This is perhaps the fairest category, and favours the highest pvp bracket, in that the highest lvled have the highest dmg output. However, potential downsides are that potentially one high-scoring game only could assure a place within the top-5 of the bracket. It might not really help revive pvp. Furthermore the person who becomes the dragon in FA, has a distinct advantage in that arena. Even worse, it may also lead to an excessive focus on killing/spawn-camping/ksing at the expense of playing arenas properly.


Potential solutions:


-Base the rewards on God of War category as an experiment, and see if it works.

-Since there appears to be no real ideal category above, perhaps offering rewards to top 5 for each class isn't the solution. Perhaps rewards should be confined to the highest bracket (lvl 81-90 players) only (i.e the 5 highest scoring players in that bracket, even if on the rankings they appear as say, Number1,5, 8, and 12, even with some lvl 1-80 players higher ranked). If this were the case, the mvp ranking suddenly becomes a lot more adequate as a fair an appopriate category for this issue. It is the best bet for helping to start end-game pvp, and encouraging continued play so lvl 90s have a chance at more mvps. Moreover, it is they that really deserve the extra reward, having spent a long time with Aeria to level their toons, and having long since suffered from not being able to play the game properly. If the rewards were really fantastic and desirable, this would, moreover, push pvp enthusiasts from lower brackets, to level so they may obtain those rewards.

-The proposed extra shop based on Crystal Rose Emblems, seems to me a good enough incentive for lower lvl brackets to help pvp more generally.


My post is long, but in essence:

The best option seems to me to base the extra rewards on the MVP category, for the 5 highest ranking players from the lvl 81-90 bracket.

There are things I might have overlooked, in which case I apologise.
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one2five

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 7:06 am
LordRapthorne wrote:
The issue is, most of the PvP related rankings get manipulated and rigged.  


That stands to reason, as I explained in my first post. Can you elaborate, so we can find the fairest option?

I've seen my fair share of exploiters during my three years as a passionate pvper in this game. However, the majority of the pvp community plays fairly.

The rewards are very necessary for a healthy end-game, and the GMs are keen to do them, so we shouldn't dismiss it just because some of the PvP related rankings can be manipulated.

minuzaki

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 8:35 am
It is certainly not hard to exploit rankings. I've seen 40's in WSB exploit the Saint ranking all too easy. As far as xtal trading goes, well, that will last forever. But it isn't something to be mad at, the lower-classed, non-twinked players normally get their points from capping crystals. This is especially a factor in 61-70 ea. Where you wont get destroyed for trying to cap a crystal.

Rankings themselves aren't exactly incentives. They're more... refrigerators. Refrigerators with magnets and "pretty" art projects there. They're more bragging rights if anything--seeing that the Hero Shop isn't exactly extravagant when it comes to rewards.

As far as fairness goes, I don't think there will ever be a balanced/fair arena. The most balanced arena I see are the only active arena's. 40,70,80.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

iBambi

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 8:43 am
Additonal rewards for rankings sounds good and all, but trading in x amount of items bought with PvP points for rotate-able rewards would be a lot better, though that involves a lot of ticket handling..

one2five

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 9:17 am
iBambi wrote:
Additonal rewards for rankings sounds good and all, but trading in x amount of items bought with PvP points for rotate-able rewards would be a lot better, though that involves a lot of ticket handling..  


U are right it would be ideal if this could be done. It would work fabulously with some consumables (like Enchants). Also it would reduce RQs because everyone still gets something out of arena rather than nothing. I was writing with the assumption that it can't be done though, GMs said they didnt have the tools to remove the points manually, QQ. If it were at all possible to do, it would however be the best solution.

minuzaki wrote:
Rankings themselves aren't exactly incentives. They're more... refrigerators. Refrigerators with magnets and "pretty" art projects there. They're more bragging rights if anything--seeing that the Hero Shop isn't exactly extravagant when it comes to rewards.  


They aren't at the moment, but if u read GMMokona's post in the Announcement Section ('In regards to pvp'), they are proposing incentivising pvp with better rewards, some that will be awarded manually by GMs. However, it would appear most categories arent adequate or can be exploited (Saints is another as u point out). It would be bad if such rewards would further incite exploiting.

Even in brackets which are unbalanced (and lvl 90 is thought to be thus), a 'less advantaged' class will still mvp from time to time with adequate talent and gear (depending on teams in given arenas), so extra top mvp rewards per class wouldn't disfavour the 'disadvantaged' classes.

iBambi

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 9:27 am
one2five wrote:
U are right it would be ideal if this could be done. It would work fabulously with some consumables (like Enchants). Also it would reduce RQs because everyone still gets something out of arena rather than nothing. I was writing with the assumption that it can't be done though, GMs said they didnt have the tools to remove the points manually, QQ. If it were at all possible to do, it would however be the best solution.  


There's just so many PvP incentive topics that I lost track of who suggested that in the first place. If GM's can remove fame from characters, they could make it a trading system. Buy x amount of something buy-able for PvP fame in-game and trade them for something else.

one2five

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 9:48 am
iBambi wrote:
one2five wrote:
U are right it would be ideal if this could be done. It would work fabulously with some consumables (like Enchants). Also it would reduce RQs because everyone still gets something out of arena rather than nothing. I was writing with the assumption that it can't be done though, GMs said they didnt have the tools to remove the points manually, QQ. If it were at all possible to do, it would however be the best solution.  


There's just so many PvP incentive topics that I lost track of who suggested that in the first place. If GM's can remove fame from characters, they could make it a trading system. Buy x amount of something buy-able for PvP fame in-game and trade them for something else.  


That would be wonderful, though requiring dev assistance. But perhaps an easy thing to convince them to do? They could just add the option to buy Crystal Rose Emblems with pvp fame to one of the pvp chest.

iBambi

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 10:07 am
one2five wrote:
That would be wonderful, though requiring dev assistance. But perhaps an easy thing to convince them to do? They could just add the option to buy Crystal Rose Emblems with pvp fame to one of the pvp chest.  


It's one of the few ideas that doesn't require any dev involvement at all. You could take one of the existing items in the PvP boxes and use them as place-holders. Like they use combat shards you can trade in for combat mounts, they could use a place-holder you could trade in for items. It would increase the amount of tickets though, unless they hire a new GM to handle more tickets, I doubt the GM team could handle doing it for long.

I can't seem to find the original post that brought forward this idea.. no idea if it got removed or if I'm just missing it somewhere.

rena_ishtar

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 10:40 am
LordRapthorne wrote:
The issue is, most of the PvP related rankings get manipulated and rigged.  


yeah, last night some sage just let me kill her in HoJ. the 15 points she gained put her in the top 50. i shot up several ranks but i wish i hadn't, it wasn't really a win.

No guts no glory!

one2five

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PostedFeb 28, 2013 10:51 am
iBambi wrote:
one2five wrote:
That would be wonderful, though requiring dev assistance. But perhaps an easy thing to convince them to do? They could just add the option to buy Crystal Rose Emblems with pvp fame to one of the pvp chest.  


It's one of the few ideas that doesn't require any dev involvement at all. You could take one of the existing items in the PvP boxes and use them as place-holders. Like they use combat shards you can trade in for combat mounts, they could use a place-holder you could trade in for items. It would increase the amount of tickets though, unless they hire a new GM to handle more tickets, I doubt the GM team could handle doing it for long.

I can't seem to find the original post that brought forward this idea.. no idea if it got removed or if I'm just missing it somewhere.  


Ok i derped there... It's a fantastic idea! Why isn't it implemented yet? To reduce tickets, they could only function for lvl 90 for the time being? And perhaps they should put something requiring an awful amount of pvp points for now, to try how it works (an unreleased costume for 50-100k pvp points in placeholder items or so?)
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