merquisa wrote:

Unfortunately this will never be bug fix, and players who abuse it will never be banned or reported. The players are abusing it in TW and GW, but nothing is done, something must be done! People who say that this is not bug and exploit is not because they use! They use them to be better than others, This is Ridiculous. If u need more dps, plis upgrade your gear, not abuse bug -.- They can talk about whatever, I play without it! Abusing bugs is ridiculous!

Upgrade my gear? Why would I do that? Are you insinuating that I should farm 16 hours a day to get SS and pray to the random number generator Gods in hope they will reward me with a +10 weapon? Sorry, my luck is horrible, I mean just look at trials. I'm at 90+ runs of calling this axe, still haven't seen it drop. In another trial I'm at 70+ runs of calling it, nothing, but I couldn't call it one run and it drops with 3 slots, that was rather painful to watch.

Some people buy their gear with AP, others have the luck Gods on their side, I personally prefer my method. Animation cancel to even the curve, it amuses me so when I outdamage someone running around with +10 weapons who think they should win automatically.

Ethismos wrote:

Funny how people just ignore the ENGINEER EXPLOIT and go just for animation cancelling. Animation cancelling is debatable, it may be a bug, it may be an exploit, it may be skill. Engineer exploit that 95% of high level people use (the other 5% have evasion cap and just farm with any class), GS's included, is considered an EXPLOIT for the last YEAR and a reason for ban. People just ignore me every time i say it and threads get locked, people use it and sell runs using it, economy gets ruined by it for new people, the exp needed to level is so high because the company actually assumes you will use cheat or buy runs from people that cheat to level... but after these discussions i guess this community actually likes it so... hf with it. I guess its not just moba's community that went downhill, i had a hope, now its gone.

If you wanted feedback on your post, perhaps you should have made it more clear. People aren't intentionally ignoring you, they're focusing on the topic of the thread since they have nothing else to contribute to your statement. (at least in my case, I'm sure there are others who feel the same way about the engineer exploit in this thread too) Perhaps you should start a new thread to avoid confusion if you would like to discuss it more.

(not part of reply to post above)
"Luck" is part of a game. Sometimes you win, sometimes you lose, but it doesn't give anybody a reason to go off and do something that is outside of normal gameplay mechanics (Is ACing promoted anywhere officially? There's no official guide to it anywhere, so I don't think so). Neither does competition with AP-buyers.

magnusbear wrote:

Umm...AC is game breaking in a way. Before anyone flames about this it is analogous to tax evasion. If someone decides to do this should we all? Ok go for it, just don't cry when you have no education, police, health or emergency services. How does it break the game? It allows players to farm more gold than intended. This drives up prices and eventually increases the fiscal advantage of players who can devote many hours to gameplay dailly. It also gives an advantage in PvP , for some classes more than others. Some classes such as warrior have short animations, while others such as samurai have longer anis. This helps create a class imbalance. I guess there will be replie about playing classes that benefit from AC or slidecasting, or about using AC to farm. Many ppl have flamed about this before, but in reply, why is it right that everyone exploits? And before moaning that a poster cant AC(even if they can) why not learn to play without AC. One viewpoint is as valid as the other.

I once played a game where a similar situation occured. I was going to post this earlier, but since this was brought up, might as well post it to help give more information and perspective.

In this game, their version of "AC" involved using special gear to get special effects for skills.
Only two classes could benefit from this system. Those two classes were already overpowered enough, but their special gear were the only gears that offered desirable effects (more than 50% damage increase for those classes, 10% mana cost reduction for the others, whoopie!).
In addition, players could switch between these gears mid-combat, making it even more oerpowered. The other two classes had no chance in PvP, and they were certainly less desirable for parties in PvE. Even healers were not desired because they weren't needed (again, because of one or two-shot kills), you could replace a healer with cash shop items (that were even better) anyway. The ranged damage class was obsolete.

The game was like that for five years or so, then it was removed. The publishers gave a statement (on behalf of them and the developers) saying that it was never intended.
The two favoured classes QQ'ed about how they couldn't 1-shot people in PvP anymore and had to spend a whole 20 seconds instead ( ).
They put the system back. Why?
Some would say that it's because the players made it such an important part of gameplay and how it actually determines who is skilled (because facerolling your keyboard is totally a skill).
The real reason? Those who played the favoured classes were the ones who bought from the cash shop like crazy. The game was fuelled on hostility. The developers and publishers focused on adding more hostile environments (ie: world bosses where PvP was enabled during a raid)

The classes in that game are still unbalanced. In fact, they made it even worse by increasing the effects of the skills for the two favoured classes.
Was the game improved in anyway around that time? Nope. It still isn't. "Normal" players continue to suffer and the gap between them and the "pro" players widens, causing a great upset in the community and the game as a whole.

Why did I post that?
So far, I am very impressed with this game and I don't want it to be as bad as that other game.

sleepingroosje wrote:

Ethismos wrote: Funny how people just ignore the ENGINEER EXPLOIT and go just for animation cancelling. Animation cancelling is debatable, it may be a bug, it may be an exploit, it may be skill. Engineer exploit that 95% of high level people use (the other 5% have evasion cap and just farm with any class), GS's included, is considered an EXPLOIT for the last YEAR and a reason for ban. People just ignore me every time i say it and threads get locked, people use it and sell runs using it, economy gets ruined by it for new people, the exp needed to level is so high because the company actually assumes you will use cheat or buy runs from people that cheat to level... but after these discussions i guess this community actually likes it so... hf with it. I guess its not just moba's community that went downhill, i had a hope, now its gone.   I farmed and did engineer runs before this glitch came in and i dont need the glitch to farm (most of the people dont) it just makes it a tiny bit more easy nothing else. Oh and small update: only a small group at high lvl does engi runs nowdays, lots of people went to mage/cleric/bd/knight runs. Heck can even still do bard runs, its just slower.

*Ahem*


Samurai here. :3

Anyway, I can farm with every single physical class besides Martial Artist. Engineer is just the most mindless one to use because it's spamming one button over and over as you kite. My Samurai is my fastest class for clearing, though.


On a side note, sometimes, slidecasting just happens. I can keep holding the W key to run forward and hit my buffs. 4/10 times, I'll slidecast the buff by accident.

Ethismos wrote:

Funny how people just ignore the ENGINEER EXPLOIT and go just for animation cancelling. Animation cancelling is debatable, it may be a bug, it may be an exploit, it may be skill. Engineer exploit that 95% of high level people use (the other 5% have evasion cap and just farm with any class), GS's included, is considered an EXPLOIT for the last YEAR and a reason for ban. People just ignore me every time i say it and threads get locked, people use it and sell runs using it, economy gets ruined by it for new people, the exp needed to level is so high because the company actually assumes you will use cheat or buy runs from people that cheat to level... but after these discussions i guess this community actually likes it so... hf with it. I guess its not just moba's community that went downhill, i had a hope, now its gone.

If AC isn't bannable then why should the Engi glitch ? They're basically the same thing.

sweetxdevil357 wrote:

Ethismos wrote: Funny how people just ignore the ENGINEER EXPLOIT and go just for animation cancelling. Animation cancelling is debatable, it may be a bug, it may be an exploit, it may be skill. Engineer exploit that 95% of high level people use (the other 5% have evasion cap and just farm with any class), GS's included, is considered an EXPLOIT for the last YEAR and a reason for ban. People just ignore me every time i say it and threads get locked, people use it and sell runs using it, economy gets ruined by it for new people, the exp needed to level is so high because the company actually assumes you will use cheat or buy runs from people that cheat to level... but after these discussions i guess this community actually likes it so... hf with it. I guess its not just moba's community that went downhill, i had a hope, now its gone.   If AC isn't bannable then why should the Engi glitch ? They're basically the same thing.

Slightly different. AC is like manual speed up while the Engi glitch is having AC on automatic. It's like the difference between semi-automatic and fully automatic firearms.

Ethismos wrote:

Funny how people just ignore the ENGINEER EXPLOIT and go just for animation cancelling. Animation cancelling is debatable, it may be a bug, it may be an exploit, it may be skill. Engineer exploit that 95% of high level people use (the other 5% have evasion cap and just farm with any class), GS's included, is considered an EXPLOIT for the last YEAR and a reason for ban. People just ignore me every time i say it and threads get locked, people use it and sell runs using it, economy gets ruined by it for new people, the exp needed to level is so high because the company actually assumes you will use cheat or buy runs from people that cheat to level... but after these discussions i guess this community actually likes it so... hf with it. I guess its not just moba's community that went downhill, i had a hope, now its gone.

http://youtu.be/YE9S3zQx_2k

to everyone complaining about ac - ur dumb as fk

General Discussion, the only place you will find comparisons between slidecasting/animation canceling and tax evasion. Do we really have to have these threads every week?

As Roosje said earlier, the problem with 'fixing' slidecasting and animation canceling is that the game engine itself causes them. It allows you to move during a skill casting animation, but the game seems unable to register both you moving and casting a skill at once, causing the issues people have with 'Target is too far' or not being able to hit people with their aoe spells. Slidecasting and AC cannot be fixed easily, it's something that would require tweaking to the game system itself, and it's not something I see X-Legend spending their time and resources doing for the EN servers when their own Taiwanese ones manage fine with slidecasting present.

Not long after Open Beta started, slidecasting came to light and there was a lot of debate about whether is was an exploit/bug or not, whether it was intended, and whether it constituted a bannable offense or not. Aeria chose to post a thread saying it was not encouraged, but not bannable. If you so strongly believe that slidecasting will be the death of EE (you know, keeping in mind that it's been present on Eden since the very beginning), it's an issue you should be taking up with Aeria so they can explain to you why they decided it wasn't something they would ban people for.

Now, to the person in this thread who claimed they had personally seen players and GS's using said 'engineer glitch' to farm in dungeons, I'd like to know where you bought your all-seeing crystal ball so I can buy one and watch other people inside of dungeons too.

You can be as opposed to slidecasting and animation canceling as you like, but it doesn't mean you need to be chastising the rest of the community for doing something we've been told is allowed since the game opened a year and a half ago. There are things I choose not to do that are present in the game, such as leeching classes in arena or reselling items. Do I scold and judge others for doing it? No, because as far as I'm concerned as long as someone's playing within the limits of the game and it's engine (including slidecasting) then it's none of my business. As for it 'not being how the game was supposed to be played', unless you're a developer for X-Legend who spends their spare time lurking in the EN forums to point out the flaws in your own game, I don't think you'd know.

Even as I'm typing, I'm reading more and more that just sounds ridiculous. Why would a games developer raise the exp curves because they 'assume you will cheat'? That would be stupid, you don't plan for something to be broken when you release it.

tl;dr
You can see yourself as righteous and morally superior as you like; I hope your moral superiority is good company when you're getting stomped in PvP because you refuse to learn something that's not going to be fixed.

Sorta relevant-ish question...? .-. Since I don't really understand AC lol ;-; /slow

Let's say you go as a close ranged class like Thief. You run away from the enemy but you somehow still do 1 auto-atk to them when you stop.
Now let's say you go as a ranged class like Hunter or even Mage. Hunters can naturally auto-atk from afar so it doesn't really count... But Mages need to get up close and smack them with the weapon (unless you're going Bow Mage). What happens with non-bow ranged classes is if you go near/pass through the enemy and run away from it, you can still do 1 auto-atk to it when you stop moving.

Is that considered animation cancelling or w/e?

Black.Lilium wrote:

Sorta relevant-ish question...? .-. Since I don't really understand AC lol ;-; /slow Let's say you go as a close ranged class like Thief. You run away from the enemy but you somehow still do 1 auto-atk to them when you stop. Now let's say you go as a ranged class like Hunter or even Mage. Hunters can naturally auto-atk from afar so it doesn't really count... But Mages need to get up close and smack them with the weapon (unless you're going Bow Mage). What happens with non-bow ranged classes is if you go near/pass through the enemy and run away from it, you can still do 1 auto-atk to it when you stop moving. Is that considered animation cancelling or w/e?

Animation Cancelling is usually considered when you do something on purpose that *cancels* the animation from any sort of attack or skill.

Animation cancelling was left in purposefully by the developers.

It's known and acknowledged on their own "home" versions of the game and hasn't been removed. It was also in Grand Fantasia for a period of time before being removed around 75 cap.

And really, this game has zero depth without animation cancelling. I'm fairly sure if it wasn't in, I wouldn't have even played this game for the few months that I had.