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mclovin365

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mclovin365
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PostedFeb 17, 2013 8:47 pm
Killa_1112 wrote:
Not everyone feels the same.  


thus the reason why I said I only speak for myself, though I am sure I am not the only one to think this way. I am sure the OP would not have cared if he got slaughtered because it would probably be a welcome change from killing everybody in 1 or 2 hits to actually have to use skill to kill his enemies.

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evan713

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PostedFeb 17, 2013 8:55 pm
mclovin365 wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Find people like you, who get descriminated against by the power players, and make a THIRD raid. Act independant of their authority, pvp, have fun, and nurture a positive and accepting culture in your raid. If you do this enough, Fun loving players will be attracted to you, rather than the uber raid, and YOUR raid will become the raid that people prefer to be in.  
No its not discrimination, its a choice that needs to be made, everyone wants in, but there is only so much space, you call them power players? they are simply the most experienced, they are the ones the rest of the pvpers chose to make the right choice to keep pvp going, that is why they lead, its not anything against a new pvper but with goddess gone, 70 being torn to shreds and 1-15 a nosser paradise, there is 1 place left to go and even though i don't play anymore i still keep up to date in the pvp forums and it is manic in 20-30 trying to place people. Making a 3rd raid is all well and good but you get people that want to pvp hardcore but can't get into the main raids, (and i was on that end as well so i understand the feeling), that see the futility of going against the opposition with pretty much no support, hence why they try and split the power players now. In this particular case it was either kick from the raid or let a 'new pvper' see canta at its worst, getting torn to bits in 1-15 gear because you are facing people who have what you have x10.

Everyone wants to have fun and have good pvp, but when you are restricted by the game mechanics someone somewhere needs to put their foot down and say 'this is the line'.

You call it discrimination, its not, its necessity. If the raid leaders don't do something then everything crumbles. So they do what their experiences tell them is best for pvp. It's all they can do. There is only so much space and right now everyone wants in, they are the 'leader' because they have shown time and time again they can organize pvp, if they couldn't nobody would join their raids, its something you need to accept, it applies to pretty much every pvp zone.

Another time before canta was quite this popular i would have agreed with making another raid to pvp for those very reasons, but the sheer mass of people, the power of pvp and the disastrous decisions Aeria has made in recent months means it just would not work. The 3rd raid would be completely annihilated.

The raid leaders can seem heartless but i used to be one, and its not easy co-ordinating pvp, while answering pms from everyone that wants in the raid, needing to tell each one individually there is no room, making the necessarily choices doesn't mean they are singling you out, it just means they need to do what they need to do.  


I can not speak for anybody else of course but I would rather be annihilated than stand on the side lines, and have made that decision before when the rest my raid decided to act like cowards and sit in base, I went out and got kills, but because I was only getting 1:1 I got booted from the raid. 90% of the raids I have been in were exactly the same, canta on a slow day being the exception (there were maybe 10 others there and we were being slaughtered, but having fun without uber noobers telling us to hold back).  


Few comments, I do not believe you could have gone out(if camped) and gotten a 1:1 kill:death ratio. Why? First, pretty sure their healers could have outmatched your damage, and lastly as soon as you stepped out, you would have been jumped(ganged), and died(or atleast making it impossible for you to get a kill(you did say no one helped you, that tells me you had no heals). This alone makes me thing that nothing you said is reliable, but lets keep going "90% of the raids I have been in were exactly the same, canta on a slow day being the exception (there were maybe 10 others there and we were being slaughtered, but having fun without uber noobers telling us to hold back)" I been ingame to know that no one enjoys that feeling of helplessness, that which you get when you can't compete( and if you tell me you do I say BS). Another thing, I sensed some anger against the "uber noobers" making your post even more unreliable. Anyways thats my input...

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 17, 2013 9:16 pm
Killa_1112 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Find people like you, who get descriminated against by the power players, and make a THIRD raid. Act independant of their authority, pvp, have fun, and nurture a positive and accepting culture in your raid. If you do this enough, Fun loving players will be attracted to you, rather than the uber raid, and YOUR raid will become the raid that people prefer to be in.  
No its not discrimination, its a choice that needs to be made, everyone wants in, but there is only so much space, you call them power players? they are simply the most experienced, they are the ones the rest of the pvpers chose to make the right choice to keep pvp going, that is why they lead, its not anything against a new pvper but with goddess gone, 70 being torn to shreds and 1-15 a nosser paradise, there is 1 place left to go and even though i don't play anymore i still keep up to date in the pvp forums and it is manic in 20-30 trying to place people. Making a 3rd raid is all well and good but you get people that want to pvp hardcore but can't get into the main raids, (and i was on that end as well so i understand the feeling), that see the futility of going against the opposition with pretty much no support, hence why they try and split the power players now. In this particular case it was either kick from the raid or let a 'new pvper' see canta at its worst, getting torn to bits in 1-15 gear because you are facing people who have what you have x10.

Everyone wants to have fun and have good pvp, but when you are restricted by the game mechanics someone somewhere needs to put their foot down and say 'this is the line'.

You call it discrimination, its not, its necessity. If the raid leaders don't do something then everything crumbles. So they do what their experiences tell them is best for pvp. It's all they can do. There is only so much space and right now everyone wants in, they are the 'leader' because they have shown time and time again they can organize pvp, if they couldn't nobody would join their raids, its something you need to accept, it applies to pretty much every pvp zone.

Another time before canta was quite this popular i would have agreed with making another raid to pvp for those very reasons, but the sheer mass of people, the power of pvp and the disastrous decisions Aeria has made in recent months means it just would not work. The 3rd raid would be completely annihilated.

The raid leaders can seem heartless but i used to be one, and its not easy co-ordinating pvp, while answering pms from everyone that wants in the raid, needing to tell each one individually there is no room, making the necessarily choices doesn't mean they are singling you out, it just means they need to do what they need to do.  


I believe you're misreading her claim.

She said they were not full, but kicked her because of her gear, and then rejected her AGAIN once she had Dread gear from the new dungeon, because it wasn't enchanted to their specification.

She was not joining a full raid that had no spots. She was joining a raid that didn't want feeders.

You can't justify that action as anything other than descrimination.

And regardless: The Fact is: She had no raid, but not by her choice. I'm pretty sure she's not alone. Annihilation or not, they still would be able to try to play. That's what it's all about.

I also know that when you were a raid leader, you annoyed the crap out of your raid-members. I wouldn't be using your tutelage in an environment where the single zone is reverting back to Ep3/4 when it was FUN. Back then, we scorned raid leaders who pulled the power card. Now we embrace them. Don't try to act like there's no correlation between that and the loss of fun.

If Canta is to be that place again, we need it to be casual, fun, and inviting. Period.

millraxx

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PostedFeb 17, 2013 9:30 pm
Alas since the merge of servers the "fun "canta is dead,pvp is reduced to one side sitting for hours till they have enough to wipe then other side sits till they have enough to wipe and very little pvp inbetween Sad

Love is stronger than death,Jelousy is crueler than the grave

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
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PostedFeb 17, 2013 9:43 pm
Rekikyo wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Find people like you, who get descriminated against by the power players, and make a THIRD raid. Act independant of their authority, pvp, have fun, and nurture a positive and accepting culture in your raid. If you do this enough, Fun loving players will be attracted to you, rather than the uber raid, and YOUR raid will become the raid that people prefer to be in.  
No its not discrimination, its a choice that needs to be made, everyone wants in, but there is only so much space, you call them power players? they are simply the most experienced, they are the ones the rest of the pvpers chose to make the right choice to keep pvp going, that is why they lead, its not anything against a new pvper but with goddess gone, 70 being torn to shreds and 1-15 a nosser paradise, there is 1 place left to go and even though i don't play anymore i still keep up to date in the pvp forums and it is manic in 20-30 trying to place people. Making a 3rd raid is all well and good but you get people that want to pvp hardcore but can't get into the main raids, (and i was on that end as well so i understand the feeling), that see the futility of going against the opposition with pretty much no support, hence why they try and split the power players now. In this particular case it was either kick from the raid or let a 'new pvper' see canta at its worst, getting torn to bits in 1-15 gear because you are facing people who have what you have x10.

Everyone wants to have fun and have good pvp, but when you are restricted by the game mechanics someone somewhere needs to put their foot down and say 'this is the line'.

You call it discrimination, its not, its necessity. If the raid leaders don't do something then everything crumbles. So they do what their experiences tell them is best for pvp. It's all they can do. There is only so much space and right now everyone wants in, they are the 'leader' because they have shown time and time again they can organize pvp, if they couldn't nobody would join their raids, its something you need to accept, it applies to pretty much every pvp zone.

Another time before canta was quite this popular i would have agreed with making another raid to pvp for those very reasons, but the sheer mass of people, the power of pvp and the disastrous decisions Aeria has made in recent months means it just would not work. The 3rd raid would be completely annihilated.

The raid leaders can seem heartless but i used to be one, and its not easy co-ordinating pvp, while answering pms from everyone that wants in the raid, needing to tell each one individually there is no room, making the necessarily choices doesn't mean they are singling you out, it just means they need to do what they need to do.  


I believe you're misreading her claim.

She said they were not full, but kicked her because of her gear, and then rejected her AGAIN once she had Dread gear from the new dungeon, because it wasn't enchanted to their specification.

She was not joining a full raid that had no spots. She was joining a raid that didn't want feeders.

You can't justify that action as anything other than descrimination.

And regardless: The Fact is: She had no raid, but not by her choice. I'm pretty sure she's not alone. Annihilation or not, they still would be able to try to play. That's what it's all about.

I also know that when you were a raid leader, you annoyed the crap out of your raid-members. I wouldn't be using your tutelage in an environment where the single zone is reverting back to Ep3/4 when it was FUN. Back then, we scorned raid leaders who pulled the power card. Now we embrace them. Don't try to act like there's no correlation between that and the loss of fun.

If Canta is to be that place again, we need it to be casual, fun, and inviting. Period.  
Im all one for a 1:1 ratio, but in the gear she had she would have been nothing but a lamb to the slaughter, it would have done her as much good in there as canta gear did me in 70 pvp, IE: its useless. Granted maybe nobody told her this, but the way i see it, it was the lesser of 2 evils. You can try and pvp using gear that may as well be NPC stuff and get slaughtered over and over before rage quitting, or you can get kicked before it even starts and spare yourself that experience. Though if that's the case someone should have told her and not simply kicked her.

And yes, one of the core reasons i no longer play is that canta is not what it was, it has lost much of what made it unique, but these 'power leaders' are necessary, they are experienced vets, they know what to do and how to do it, they know how to keep pvp active, they know the ins and outs that everyone else needs to know and they know how to pull off organizing their faction. That is WHY they are raid leaders. You take someone completely new and throw them into that position they will only get frustrated and burn themselves out, its not about embrace, its about what needs to be done. The damage inflicted onto this game by Aeria has forced much of this onto canta.

You saw my canta posts over the last 2 years Rek, you saw what i stood for, what i fought to try and keep canta, what canta WAS. I would not be saying any of this if i didn't believe with every fiber of my being that this is what the situation is. Canta has changed, the system i fought to try and protect only worked because people worked together, now there are too many egos, too much 70 pvp in canta, people simply cant do that anymore and so they entirety of what canta was, has gone, one of the few things both sides still agree on is keeping the zone noss free, any form of mutual co-operation to better pvp is blown out the window before it has even started both sides see the other as a cold blooded enemy and anyone who trys to change that is seen as a spy or an idiot.

Canta use to be about fun, it use to be a great place to pvp, a great place to chill where anyone was welcome anytime and everyone could have a laugh and grab some kills along the way, as much as it pains me to say it, those days are gone, the zone has changed, its simply not the same, The money way of life that Aeria has thrown at shaiya has taken almost everything canta ever stood for, many of the great characters and personalities that i loved pvping with and against have long since quit for the same reason i have. It is no longer about fun, its about kills, and that is what raid leaders do, they make sure pvp is organised enough to get kills. Those are the decisions that pvpers must respect when joining their raid. If you get kicked, you need to accept it. It happened to me, Its happened to other before me, and it will happen to others after me. Its not discrimination, its about what keeps pvp going.

If there was a way to make canta fun again i would be doing it, but i know when it would be futile to try, the only way to make it fun again is for both sides to put all differences aside and start working together to keep pvp active and fun, but the very thought of working with each other is laughable. that why the real canta has been lost.

PS: Just for the record, you haven't a clue how i lead when i was raid leader, you were in canta a whole 0 times, so don't presume to even try and tell me. I don't need to justify anything to you. If people didn;t like me leading then why would they give me lead? Why would they not form their own raids with their own leaders and have me join that one and follow instead of lead? You hear 1 or 2 little stories and take them as fact, i wasn't always popular, i know this, but its not a bloody popularity contest, its about pvp and i did everything i could to keep pvp going. More than can be said for anything you ever did in 70.

In the same way i try and stay out of 80 pvp discussions, maybe you should try and stay out of canta ones.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 17, 2013 10:23 pm
I know what your personal position was on canta, and I know it drove two GS's who were trying to help you to leave the server, and fury to boycott your pvp. You had good gear. People follow gear.

But, I'm going to give you a compliment as well;
I remember quite specifically a Screenshot you had, of you in the middle of about 12 fury, on your knees begging for forgiveness. That is the one memory I have of you that made me chuckle, your self-abashing demeanor which occasionally turned into good humor. You even had a month here or there where you were happy, and did have a good impression on people.

It saddens me that the latter was not the majority of the time. It was encompassed by the complaints I heard from all my canta friends, who are all reputable players (not one or two; GS's, players with 3 diamond+ rank, both fury and light).

I disagree with you on what would have occured when she got slaughtered. Not everyone quits. Some people have the natural response of improving (gear, tactics, and dedication). My first experience in pvp was me in a party of three in Ep3, in Canta, among about 50 fury and 150 lights on Teos Light. There were no less than 40 nossers, and I was completely out of my comfort zone. But, IT WAS FUN. Instead of quitting, we made a game of dodging the nossers and picking off other nubs. I still have that toon. NM level 28 Priest 2 int 2wis 1rec lmfao. And I know plenty who have that kind of response.

New players were running the raids in 15 at the beginning of Phoenix, and we were getting 3500 kills a day. The very week the power players took over, the kills dropped to 1500, then 1000 the next week. The players who were discriminated against in this process, complained quite vocally, and then either quit out of disgust, or left the server.

I'm quite aware of what personalities are in canta right now. Canta is a small part of what I doing with my 600 or so Christmas Lapis. I have guildies with 30 toons, and hopefully more on the way. Heck, I'd already be in canta myself in my free time, if a guildie didn't go Awol with my set (Havent seen him since October.... I miss my 16 boots too, since they're useful for the dread dungeon).

I do think Canta has plenty of ability to revive, but maybe not in your image. Fury needs a few more hands, and AoL needs to lose a few priests lmfao, but I believe it's easy to fix the personality issues.

Killa_1112

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PostedFeb 17, 2013 10:57 pm
Rekikyo wrote:
I know what your personal position was on canta, and I know it drove two GS's who were trying to help you to leave the server, and fury to boycott your pvp. You had good gear. People follow gear.  
Then perhaps you don't know as much as you think.

 
But, I'm going to give you a compliment as well;
I remember quite specifically a Screenshot you had, of you in the middle of about 12 fury, on your knees begging for forgiveness. That is the one memory I have of you that made me chuckle, your self-abashing demeanor which occasionally turned into good humor. You even had a month here or there where you were happy, and did have a good impression on people.  
I still have that image




It is one of my fondest moments in canta It reminds me what the zone once was, of the good old days....


 
It saddens me that the latter was not the majority of the time. It was encompassed by the complaints I heard from all my canta friends, who are all reputable players (not one or two; GS's, players with 3 diamond+ rank, both fury and light).  
Im not someone who trys to be popular, in honesty i don't care, but what i do try and do is stand up for what i believe is right, even if that does make me unpopular, even hated, you say people complained to you about me? Then why did i have others complimenting me? And answer me this though, if what i was doing was so awful and terrible, and it annoyed the crap out of everyone, why did it work? The entire system was based on mutual co-operation, working together, being patient with each other, if could easily have fallen apart if others did not believe the same. In fact, it would only have take 1 person to cause it to fall apart. Instead, it worked, it thrived, and for a time, canta was 'the' zone.

 
I disagree with you on what would have occured when she got slaughtered. Not everyone quits. Some people have the natural response of improving (gear, tactics, and dedication). My first experience in pvp was me in a party of three in Ep3, in Canta, among about 50 fury and 150 lights on Teos Light. There were no less than 40 nossers, and I was completely out of my comfort zone. But, IT WAS FUN. Instead of quitting, we made a game of dodging the nossers and picking off other nubs. I still have that toon. NM level 28 Priest 2 int 2wis 1rec lmfao. And I know plenty who have that kind of response.  
Some do, many do not, and yes, it was fun, i agree with you there, it was very fun and the best zone ingame. Your first expiriance will greatly differ from someones first experience now. Everything has changed from EP3, i can only go by what i have seen over the years, and my gut tells me that she it was because she simply did not have the equipment to fight.

A Solider wants to fight the enemy using nothing more than a slingshot, against an enemy with machine guns, you can bet you would try and stop him going out there.

 
New players were running the raids in 15 at the beginning of Phoenix, and we were getting 3500 kills a day. The very week the power players took over, the kills dropped to 1500, then 1000 the next week. The players who were discriminated against in this process, complained quite vocally, and then either quit out of disgust, or left the server.  
Never stuck around on px long enough to disprove that, but i never denied it was true, i only said that is the direction the game has been forced into by Aerias reckless policy's.

 
I do think Canta has plenty of ability to revive, but maybe not in your image. Fury needs a few more hands, and AoL needs to lose a few priests lmfao, but I believe it's easy to fix the personality issues.  
1) It was never about my image, all i have ever tried to do is keep the fun in canta while still keeping the kills.

2) If you think the personality issues are so easy to fix you are clearly not as well informed as you think you are. It sounds a lot simpler than it is. Its like treading on nitroglycerin, it takes nothing whatsoever for everything to blow up in your face nowadays. Both sides look for an excuse to pick a fight with each other.

Even if there is some magical way to return canta to its former glory, 1 way or another i will be keeping out of it, I know i have a bad reputation and almost everyone who supported what i tried to do on gaia is now gone, im done with it all, besides i don't even play so really i have no have a say in anything that happens there anymore, its not my place, all i try and do now is offer a different perspective, while they are busy blaming darks and lights i will try to remain objective, its all i can do. If the pvpers chose to do something they can, but I learnt the first time around what to do and what not to do, and doing anything to try and change the system now would be nothing short of pointless. And if anyone was going to try, i would be the worst possible choice. You need people that inspire, this is not me, not by a long shot. But regardless, i tried.

There are others there that carry more sway today than i ever did, that have the respect of everyone who pvps in canta that could do a better job than i ever did if they tried. I messed up too many times, and yes i made mistakes, sometimes big ones, but i tried to learn from them. It was never my intention to make canta 'my' zone. All i ever tried to do was protect what it was before it crashed and burned like the rest of pvp in this game. It appears I failed, and in so doing i failed everyone who pvped in canta.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

Mandatar

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PostedFeb 18, 2013 3:49 am
mark

When I am leading the raid I generally do not kick people for gear. Sometimes when it's crowded the raid will be invitation only, but when this happens there will usually come a 2nd raid.

I know some raid leaders kick for weaker gear, but I can assure you that this is a not a generally accepted consensus. It just depends on whom is there. Sometimes the average gear on the fury raid is so strong, that we need more uber geared players before we can even make a chance. If that happens it is frustrating for all players who want to pvp (on both factions).

Mandatar (80), Scrooge (30), Someshta (30), Azeal (15), Kierin (65)

CreamKerouac

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Lebanon
PostedFeb 18, 2013 9:28 am
This is a huge over-reaction. I don't know who lead was at the time but I can assure you this isn't always the case. Depending on who is lead only people in novice/NPC gears are kicked to make space for regular pvpers. It may be that lead was told to kick you to make space for someone else and went through with it relying on someone else's judgement. Don't take it personally, and don't let one person ruin the fun. Something I do NOT support is bashing the entire faction and the zone just because of one incident.

For all the fury claiming it's the AoL attitude in the zone, please don't flatter yourselves. We're known to split into 2 raids to accommodate all those who want to pvp instead of kicking and only letting in ubers so one raid gets the kills, I think that speaks for itself.

For the trolls who've dragged this topic on and literally exhausted every fiber of it please stfu with your judgement of the zone and the players in it. If you don't even play in the zone currently, your opinions are either outdated or irrelevant.

However, I honestly don't understand all this QQ about someone not getting into a raid. I PvP'd for a LONG time outside of the first raid and in the second raid, i started getting invites and making friends eventually. Play for fun, don't play for kills. Yes i know you're a priest but this applies to others as well who seem insulted when they don't get into a raid as if they're being punished or something.

P.S. If you can remember the name of the person leading at the time, do let the AoL canta community know, if not then I suggest leaving this topic to die instead of dragging it out and letting killa and rekikyo stomp all over it.

Killa_1112

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PostedFeb 18, 2013 9:39 am
CreamKerouac wrote:
P.S. If you can remember the name of the person leading at the time, do let the AoL canta community know, if not then I suggest leaving this topic to die instead of dragging it out and letting killa and rekikyo stomp all over it.  
Lovely, thanks bro, nice to know where i stand Razz.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn
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