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GMPaladin

Aeria: Specialist
GMPaladin
Joined
23 Mar 2011
Posts
2603
Location
San Jose United States
PostedFeb 13, 2013 1:04 am
Game_Rage wrote:
Wait a sec you're gonna really delete my post just cause you don't like it? Way to be mature Aeria.  


I looked into this and it looks like your post was unfortunately included in a mass move of several of your other recent posts that were... inappropriate for the forums. You can can repost your previous reply if you would like and I've sent a copy to your PM inbox.

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JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8331
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedFeb 13, 2013 7:24 am
zimmey16 wrote:
GS's are much like a costume in your favorite game, most of them have no real function.  


Unless your favourite game is Shaiya where Costumes unfortunately do have a function >.<

On topic, SE pretty much summed it up for me, but then we joined and left the GS programme at the same times so we both saw the same exact things xD

The Free AP card that gets pulled a lot does amuse me though, mainly because I clearly have a different view of what the word "free" means, my definition "being given something with no obligations or requirements in return for it"

LilianMcK

Rank 4
LilianMcK
Joined
12 Jun 2008
Posts
3135
Location
United Kingdom
PostedFeb 13, 2013 8:10 am

Re: Heavy criticism on the Game Sage program

Some rage that needed to be vented after 2 years.
My answers in blue:

Anonymous_Rants wrote:
First of all I'm going to say this as a disclaimer: I do respect the Game Sages, but the program itself I do not. It's heavily flawed.
Second disclaimer: This is all from a player's perspective, and no names will be mentioned.

 
Part 1: Biased outcomes of applications.
By now it's no surprise that Game Sage applications are incredibly biased.
The major factors of biased in applications:
1. Does the current Game Sage team like you?
YES, the Game Sage team of the game you're applying at does affect your outcome of being a game sage. If the team loves you, you're already 1/3 of the way there. If not, you're set back on your chances greatly.

To an extent I agree with this. However I do occasionally see valid people get through who deserve, sometimes also liked. The extent of this does vary from time to time and game to game and the system is only as good as those in charge of it at any one time.
From the GMs point of view especially if they are new and do not know the community they will rely heavily on gamesage input. I believe however they should not dismiss community input out of hand. There will always be bias toward people liked personally. It happens.
However just because a gamesage backs a particular player, if players send feedback to a Gm this should not be ignored because said GS backed them.


2. Do the GMs like you?
The biggest factor, do the GMs like you. They can simply turn you down because they don't like you, or simply because they can.

Yes they can. Not really more to say on this.

3. How helpful are you really?
I've seen so many people getting turned down from being a Game Sage, despite them being the most active and helpful person in the entire section of the Aeria Games community. For what reasons I have no clue, but it's happened.

Sometimes there are other things to take into account. I have seen "helpful" people who have been innapropriate in other ways. Even if I like someone I do not always think they would be a good game sage.

Specifically speaking towards Eden Eternal at this one. I've seen so many Game Sage applications being approved for people who have rarely helped people, or those who have only helped when they apply. This is horrendously stupid on choices for a Game Sage, but it is the truth.
 


There sometimes is a slight imbalance in games. The reasons for this refer to answer 1 on this. Yes sometimes it is more about being endorsed rather than helpful. However other times it is about you just not seeing how they help in other areas. I do think a sage should have experience in both forums and game personally. However this does not always happen. One gamesage I know of got after appearing briefly in forums, had never heard of them before. I did not agree with this person getting at all, however since this I have heard this person is active and helpful in game. Which of course is good.

 
Part 2: "Super secret Game Sage facts!"
No I won't be revealing what I know about the Game Sage program, because I don't want any of my accounts suspended, and I know this thread itself can get them suspended. But this needs to be vented.

1. Game Sages get free junk from Aeria to be better at the games they play.
This is the most painfully obvious secret of being a Game Sage that mostly EVERYONE knows, despite GMs not wanting players to know. However I can confidently confirm this thanks to one of Superman0X's post. And if a GM is going to suspend my account for something a GM revealed ages ago, then just wow, way to be a good GM for suspending an account for something a GM revealed..

SuperMan0X wrote:
We give them a little AP, so that when they do play, they can get better results. We even have them showcase new costumes and such, so that they look cool.  

Source thread: http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?p=3839967#3839967
I won't expand upon any other secrets.  


All we reasonably long term players know this. It was very open in the past. However I think they are discouraged from advertising the fact especially when a new person asked direct. This I have been advised by a GS is more to do with discouraging players from applying for free ap. However yes I do not like if any outright lie or deny. They just do not need to reply or comment if asked.

I will say though they should get ap. They earn it. I do not think they are handed it for doing nothing. I think it is based on what they actually do. This to me is a very fair system. They do a lot of work behind the scenes, paperwork etc. and should get some small recompense for this. So anyone applying to get a freebie be warned it does not work like that. You have to work for it.



 
Part 3: Loose lipped Game Sages
I cannot even begin to describe how many secrets were leaked to me by Game Sages. In fact, this is how I know so much about the Game Sage program. And honestly isn't a part of being a Game Sage CONFIDENTIALITY? Well time to toss out 3/4 of the Games Sages at Aeria, cause god knows how terrible they are at keeping things confidential. However, as much as I want to report the ones that I know personally that don't keep the secrets, I can't due to them being leaked on third party chat programs.
 
 


Yes this should not happen. However I also do not think it is nice to publicly say this in forums as whoever may have let things slip clearly did to you as a friend. They are human, they are players and clearly trusted your confidence. However yes I do agree with you, this is not professional.

I will close with there are many things wrong with the gamesage program currently. It used to be better, however I will say the responsibilty does lie with each individual game taking control of properly. I do not even blame the bad sages, after all they are just players, some being opportunists. I blame the gms who do not take proper control in their relevant games and give the opportunities to the bad few. I have witnessed what happens when a good strong gm who will not take nonsense takes charge. I see positive changes and improvements in less than perfect sages. This to me shows they just need a good leader.

I also do believe that sages should be given a chance to change with warnings (unless serious issue). However I also believe after those warnings, no matter how useful said sage is to gms, if the behaviour continues, they should be removed from the program. There does seem to be a reluctance to make them culpable for said behaviour. Again this is down to the GM in charge.

A good sage never forgets they are a player, no better than their fellow players and acts accordingly with added responsibility. They should set an example (a good one). It helps when a GM reminds those who forget this occasionally. It is the GMs responsility to keep them in check.

Saying all this generally the sages do a good job, there are still a few around that do not take advantage and do the job for all the right reasons, because they like to help.


sdsdssdsds

Rank 3
Joined
12 Jul 2012
Posts
1317
Location
Bay Area CA United States
PostedFeb 13, 2013 10:36 am
There are a lot of really good things brought up in this thread. Not only did i personally like seeing everyone's input on the matter, but it's good there are still a lot of people out there who can discuss the matter intelligently, instead of just bashing individuals for no apparent reason at all.

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
Joined
13 Aug 2008
Posts
10636
Location
United Kingdom
PostedFeb 13, 2013 2:58 pm
It is in large due to the community attitude, anyone with half a brain has up and left shaiya since now you need to be spending 300$ a month at least just to stand still. This leaves the attention seekers, the babys, the kids, and the little spoilt brats with daddys credit card.

Now, GS's need to be picked, but no matter who you pick its going to be bad, anyone with more than 2 brain cells can see being a GS is a bad idea in a game where they are simply used as sponges by Aeria to absorb some of the QQ from the players.

In short it once again boils down to Aeria being Aeria. It wont change, it will never change, the people playing the game are the reason there are so few decent GS's anymore, because there are no longer decent players to chose from, and the very very few that remain just wants to stay in the background and enjoy what little is actually left of the game.

You can't blame a GS for being bad, you can blame the company for choosing them to begin with. This comes down to Game satisfaction and GM training. Once again, this is why GM interaction is NEEDED. Take note Aeria.

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

Sine_Amore

Rank 3
Sine_Amore
Joined
15 Mar 2009
Posts
917
Location
Georgia United States
PostedFeb 14, 2013 4:26 pm
Panderp. wrote:
maaan you should look at DWO's GS team.

There are 8 GSs. Half of them are inactive, quit, never log on etc.
The ones that are "active" are seen once every few days.
Our forum's first page is half filled with threads that should've been locked or deleted days ago, and that's pretty much the easiest part of being a GS.

Our program never had any requirements for a GS, no screenshots or reports or anything like that. We've had a few instances of a GS simply sitting around and collecting the AP they received for "helping"

At least for our game, GMs need to actually look at the GS program again. Our last application was June/July 2011....

Then again, most of the problem stems from the fact that the game is on the bottom of the priority list for Aeria, and not entirely on the GS program itself.  


Actually, client and browser GSes do not have the ability to lock or delete threads. Only forums GSes or GMs themselves. Just saying. x:

Panderp.

Rank 4
Panderp.
Joined
27 Apr 2012
Posts
2796
Location
The Moon Brazil
PostedFeb 17, 2013 9:07 am
Sine_Amore wrote:
Panderp. wrote:
maaan you should look at DWO's GS team.

There are 8 GSs. Half of them are inactive, quit, never log on etc.
The ones that are "active" are seen once every few days.
Our forum's first page is half filled with threads that should've been locked or deleted days ago, and that's pretty much the easiest part of being a GS.

Our program never had any requirements for a GS, no screenshots or reports or anything like that. We've had a few instances of a GS simply sitting around and collecting the AP they received for "helping"

At least for our game, GMs need to actually look at the GS program again. Our last application was June/July 2011....

Then again, most of the problem stems from the fact that the game is on the bottom of the priority list for Aeria, and not entirely on the GS program itself.  


Actually, client and browser GSes do not have the ability to lock or delete threads. Only forums GSes or GMs themselves. Just saying. x:  

I know. I've been a GS. It's not hard to open yim, message a GM who's on and link them a few threads that need to be locked. Easiest task a GS can do

minuzaki

Rank 4
Joined
08 Mar 2010
Posts
1620
Location
Hell. Denmark
PostedFeb 17, 2013 10:56 am
I've actually had an interesting discussion with one of my friends last night. We discussed this topic through and through. What we discussed was; How certain applicants that are known for helping, and would probably continue helping do not get picked. And then there are the GS's who "Oh! I like to help (as an applicant) let me post on forums!" then their forum presence, and their pre-existing shoutbox presence is suddenly gone.


Panderp wrote:
There are 8 GSs. Half of them are inactive, quit, never log on etc.
The ones that are "active" are seen once every few days.  
This is a huge problemo for Eden Eternal. From what I have observed, there are currently 3 GS's active in shoutbox and forums over at EE. One of them can't be there due to studies.(I think.) One of them isn't even supposed to be there. (But I find it nice that he's there. He knows a lot about the game and takes time out of his personal day to help people there.) And one of them--Well, I've been told he hangs around in the Scarlet Blade shoutbox. Big nono. This is also similar to a few of GF's GS's. However, there is always one GS in the shoutbox looking to assist players, so I honestly can't see a problem there.


Recently, I've noticed some GS's that should have never. Ever. Been recruited. I have a screenshot of a particular Gamesage being involved in account sharing. And before you all go "Report it, report it!" I have. Multiple times.


GMGreywulf wrote:
Account sharing is where more than one person has access of an account. It is a violation of our Terms of Service.

Account sharing creates liability and security issues. If a report comes to us and we determine that the base cause of the issue is account sharing, all accounts involved will be permanently banned. Prevent this by never giving out your password to anyone.  


Did I mention this person is still a GS? I think I did.

billdoor

Rank 5.1
billdoor
Joined
05 Aug 2008
Posts
6422
Location
Foldereid Norway
PostedFeb 17, 2013 3:25 pm
Panderp. wrote:
I know. I've been a GS. It's not hard to open yim, message a GM who's on and link them a few threads that need to be locked. Easiest task a GS can do  

Unless you are a Shaiya GS. Unless things have changed significantly since I gave up my tags, the Shaiya GSes are still required to send in a GM request form rather than contacting GMs directly through YIM. Only severe issues allow them to circumvent that rule - like the servers melting (actual quote). These request forms are handled whenever a GM has the time to look them up. Given that the GMs have a quota of tickets to process per day (I assume this quota is calculated based on the total ticket load), you are a fortunate GS indeed to have your request processed in a timely manner, as Superman0X and others have made it quite clear that tickets are priority #1.

I will continue to maintain the following point:

As long as the GMs that are supposed to be GS managers are not given this as their primary task, even before tickets, the GS program will continue to suck. Bigtime.

SeasonsEnd/MadManMoon/Uigeadail - retired from Shaiya as of May 10th 2014.

Mehrvigne

GameSage: Shaiya
Mehrvigne
Joined
01 Apr 2008
Posts
2681
Location
New Orleans United States
PostedFeb 17, 2013 4:24 pm
I'm not sure how the game sage program is in the game you play. But as a current GS for an AGE game I can assure you that no matter what is done, no system will be "perfect."

If your game sages get "secret" information, that's kind of cool. It's also cool that ya'll get free costumes to showcase. Shaiya GSs don't get that. The pittens AP we get for the amount of work we have to do to GET said pittens chump change is certainly nothing to brag about.

Shaiya GSs don't get any secret inside information. Our information comes from the forums and we find out when everyone else finds out. Only difference, is that as a GS, we're expected to keep up with current stuff going on that way when people ask, we can direct them to where they can find their answers or point them in a direction where they will most likely find their answers.

I think a big misconception is that people are putting too much on GSs. They are expecting too much from them. People look to them like their game gods or something when all they are just regular players volunteering to wear a tag so that they can be marked as a "trusted" person to not give a BS answer. Not once was I told I was some private test something or other, or never have I gotten access to areas other than an extra forum (that was stated earlier that is rarely used.)

As far as biased outcomes of applications:
Yes, there could be some biased outlooks on it, but the bias comes in when evaluating the person's behavior. yes they like to help, but HOW do they help? Powerleveling people and giving away random items doesn't constitute as "help." Doing things to enrich and teach others about the game is more considered "help." Guidance is help. That's what a game sage does, guide. If someone was great at guiding someone, but they constantly bothered others or acted like a goat to others in chat, that doesn't make for a good GS. They're role models. And as others have stated, the GS team has to put in for people who they think they will be able to work well with. If there is constant conflict, there will be problems. Does this mean suck up to the GSs? No. GSs actually hate suck-ups. All we want are nice palyers with level heads that don't fly off the handle when a situation arises.

As far as loose lipped GSs... I don't remember ever getting information that I couldn't share freely. Any information I got, everyone knew already. And half the time people are telling ME!

Does the GS program need some tightning up? Yes. I believe it could, but like I said, no system is perfect and there is always room for improvement. I appreciate your criticism. If you have any ideas on what could be done to better it, maybe I could dust off those extra forums GSs have access too and try passing it up the chain. As far as contacting GMs directly, the only way I can contact GMs directly is via ticket, as they are very hard to get a hold of and they're not there for idle chit-chat or QQ GM HE SAID A BAD WORD IN WORLD CHAT!"

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