Author Message

Killa_1112

Rank 5.1
Killa_1112
Joined
13 Aug 2008
Posts
10316
Location
United Kingdom
PostedFeb 10, 2013 2:16 pm
iBambi wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
Before i start, i would like to state I was a GS, i know what happens and i can also tell you sir, that you are completely and utterly wrong.

Part 1 How helpful are you?

H3ll i am helpful around the forums, but i would make a terrible GS now, im opinionated, arrogant and can get into strongly worded disagreements, all of these things are giant NO's in the GS team, so saying 'helpful people don't get in' proves you have done little to no research.  


Only being helpful doesn't get you there. You can't be a total arse and expect to be tagged, but there's always a difference between a person that sugar-coats their every word and a person that's just blunt. From personal experience, the GM team on GF prefers the first, even if their knowledge about the game is highly questionable. Sometimes it seems like they just put all the names into a hat, mix it around a bit, and have some fun picking up random notes to choose the new GS applicants.  
Honestly when you have a pool of crap to choose from, the result will be crap no matter what you do. In other words, try and find me 5 knowledgeable, respectable, honest, decent players in shaiya that know what they are doing and would be willing to help as a GS. Anyone who fits all the pieces wouldn't simply because they know how the GS's get treated from both the community and Aeria and have the brains to figure out it would be a bad move.

 
Killa_1112 wrote:
Part 2

"Does the GS and GM team like you?" Translation = "Have you or have you not been an arse to people" Dude seriously I'm one of Aeria's strongest critics and even i can see that you are basing a lot of this on speculation and have done little actual research. If you are a decent player and candidate and stay out of trouble then of course you are more likely to be accepted, it has nothing to do with who likes you.  


It has a lot to do with who likes you. The official response is that the GSes are "just like normal players," but there have been cases of power abuse before, that clearly proves they're not just normal players in some cases. I remember a highly qualified person that applied for several months without getting accepted into the program. After one of the GSes on the team at that time stepped down, he got accepted the next application round. The tension between these two people was no secret, and it was obvious why he didn't get accepted into the program before.

You don't need to be an arse to make a GS not fancy you, and depending on how professional the GM is in their work, you don't need to be an arse to make a GM dislike you either. I got into a few slightly heated discussions with a GS before, and got my account conveniently suspended for suspicious actions.  
Then thats a fault in the system of selection. as for 'abuse of power' i ask again as i have done with many other posts, what power??? GS's can report to GMs on short notice, thats all, nothing more, if that GM takes action that that is a flaw in Aerias employment process and training, not an abuse of power, GMs should not take a GS's word. This is why interaction with the community is vital, and why it is vital that GMs get a feel for the who they are dealing with.

This is why community interaction is vital, because you know who pushes who, you can see who rubs who up the wrong way, you get a feel for who you are talking to and assisting, In doing this you would no longer need to take a GS's word on face value, but this means Aeria spending on more staff.

Don't get me wrong, i get that there are many issues with the system as well, but alot of this is just made up speculation and way way way over exaggeration. Its not perfect, but it is not as bad as people make it out to be.

Advertisement

iBambi

Rank 5
iBambi
Joined
05 Oct 2010
Posts
4849
Location
Whale hunting in Norway
PostedFeb 10, 2013 2:28 pm   Last edited by iBambi on Feb 10, 2013 2:59 pm. Edited 1 time in total
Killa_1112 wrote:
Honestly when you have a pool of crap to choose from, the result will be crap no matter what you do. In other words, try and find me 5 knowledgeable, respectable, honest, decent players in shaiya that know what they are doing and would be willing to help as a GS. Anyone who fits all the pieces wouldn't simply because they know how the GS's get treated from both the community and Aeria and have the brains to figure out it would be a bad move.  


Meh, you don't need to be super knowledgeable to be a good GS. As long as you know the basics of the game and are willing to learn, you should do pretty okay, at least on a simple game like GF, which is the only game I play here on Aeria.

Killa_1112 wrote:
Then thats a fault in the system of selection. as for 'abuse of power' i ask again as i have done with many other posts, what power??? GS's can report to GMs on short notice, thats all, nothing more, if that GM takes action that that is a flaw in Aerias employment process and training, not an abuse of power, GMs should not take a GS's word. This is why interaction with the community is vital, and why it is vital that GMs get a feel for the who they are dealing with.

This is why community interaction is vital, because you know who pushes who, you can see who rubs who up the wrong way, you get a feel for who you are talking to and assisting, In doing this you would no longer need to take a GS's word on face value, but this means Aeria spending on more staff.

Don't get me wrong, i get that there are many issues with the system as well, but alot of this is just made up speculation and way way way over exaggeration. Its not perfect, but it is not as bad as people make it out to be.  


I'm aware that they can only report people to the GMs, but who can't twist words and situations around? GM's should not take a GS's word as proof, but after several unpleasant events, I don't doubt they do. I've personally had some fun testing how hard it would be to stir stuff your way if you're on the good side with a GM, and the result was pretty amusing, but it's not something to go into detail on in public.

Zyrein

Rank 4
Zyrein
Joined
09 Jan 2008
Posts
2517
Location
Angry box United States
PostedFeb 10, 2013 2:54 pm
Anonymous_Rants wrote:

 
Part 2: "Super secret Game Sage facts!"
No I won't be revealing what I know about the Game Sage program, because I don't want any of my accounts suspended, and I know this thread itself can get them suspended. But this needs to be vented.  
 

If you are going to say this, I hope you realize that GMs can and will look at your IP and the accounts connected to it.

Anonymous_Rants wrote:
1. Game Sages get free junk from Aeria to be better at the games they play.
This is the most painfully obvious secret of being a Game Sage that mostly EVERYONE knows, despite GMs not wanting players to know. However I can confidently confirm this thanks to one of Superman0X's post. And if a GM is going to suspend my account for something a GM revealed ages ago, then just wow, way to be a good GM for suspending an account for something a GM revealed..  

GSs get AP as you said previously. Other items? They get items needed to actually do their "job" as a GS. For example GSs in EE get a small amount of World Calls. This information isn't hidden and EE GSs are specifically told that they can tell the players this.

billdoor

Rank 5
billdoor
Joined
05 Aug 2008
Posts
6371
Location
Foldereid Norway
PostedFeb 10, 2013 3:28 pm
A former GS myself, my main beef has always been that Aeria fails to make ACTIVE use of their game sages in a way that enhances the overall playing experience. The management of the various GS teams are way too dependent on the time the various GS managers are allowed to spend on them. The less the teams are followed up, the more haphazard the things the GSes do, the less happy the community are with them. Aeria created the GS teams, Aeria should not expect them to run themselves.

re bias in the selection of GSes - a number of GSes are good at keeping their ears to the ground and noticing the behavior of various players. Some GS candidates that may look perfectly good to the community might have shown attitudes and behavior that is incompatible with being a GS while a GS has been watching. If so, the GSes would be remiss in their work not to report on this to the GS team manager if an applicant has been out of line in the past or during the review of the application.

That said, one cannot always rule out personal bias or people taking personal feuds with them into the reviewing of applicants. I know it has happened, and it will happen again. Thing is though, HOW can you select new GSes if you do not seek for feedback on them? By application alone is very risky business indeed. Anyone who can string a coherent sentence together and spell remotely well is capable of lying.

The GS team managers do as well as they can when selecting based on the information available to them. If someone has committed a no-no, they aren't picked. If no one can provide solid information to raise reasonable doubt about the suitability of a candidate, they MAY get picked.

Bottom line though - Aeria is responsible for the GS program. If you have bad GSes, it's not THEIR fault they got picked. Haphazard management = sure way of deteriorating GS teams.

Short_Amigo

GameSage: Forum
Short_Amigo
Joined
16 Apr 2008
Posts
2302
Location
A place in Canada
PostedFeb 11, 2013 1:47 pm

Re: Heavy criticism on the Game Sage program

Some rage that needed to be vented after 2 years.
Fun topic so I feel like contributing to this one.

Anonymous_Rants wrote:
First of all I'm going to say this as a disclaimer: I do respect the Game Sages, but the program itself I do not. It's heavily flawed.
Second disclaimer: This is all from a player's perspective, and no names will be mentioned.

 
Part 1: Biased outcomes of applications.
By now it's no surprise that Game Sage applications are incredibly biased.
The major factors of biased in applications:
1. Does the current Game Sage team like you?
YES, the Game Sage team of the game you're applying at does affect your outcome of being a game sage. If the team loves you, you're already 1/3 of the way there. If not, you're set back on your chances greatly.

2. Do the GMs like you?
The biggest factor, do the GMs like you. They can simply turn you down because they don't like you, or simply because they can.

3. How helpful are you really?
I've seen so many people getting turned down from being a Game Sage, despite them being the most active and helpful person in the entire section of the Aeria Games community. For what reasons I have no clue, but it's happened.

Specifically speaking towards Eden Eternal at this one. I've seen so many Game Sage applications being approved for people who have rarely helped people, or those who have only helped when they apply. This is horrendously stupid on choices for a Game Sage, but it is the truth.
 

 


1) It's kind of important to have the opinion of the GS team's feedback on an applicant because usually they are in game, know what they are like personality wise, and will say if they get along with them or not.

As much as professionalism should be withheld among the Game Sages, there will still be drama when there is a group of people involved. If you have two players that do well in their duties but can't stand each other for whatever reason, it's just going to cause work for the GM's to try to break up and/or sort it out. And that's something I'm sure a GM involved with organizing the GS team of their game would like to avoid. So how a GS feels about a player is important in that aspect.

Also they may have good reason not to accept certain applicants. Bad past, etc. I know the one back in DoMO, guy was pretty qualified to be a GS, however had a bad past of going absolutely nuts on people out of nowhere. And would you appreciate a GS going nuts on your *** just out of nowhere? Yea probably not.

2) Yes, this fact is true. That's probably one of the faults of this program not doing so well as it could as it doesn't have much for due diligence for which game sages get picked/don't get picked and the reasoning behind it. So really it's almost to the preference to what the GM's in charge say.

The GS program is a tool of Aeria's to try to help them provide a better service, so if they really want to choose someone who they like instead of someone who would be more capable of doing GS duties, then that's their downfall. They though do expect us to do reports on a regular basis to make sure we are active in some way. And that's also to the GM's job to monitor and go "Hmm this person is doing squatt, maybe I should boot them from the program and look for someone new."

So I mean it really depends on who is doing the picking and how well of a job they are maintaining the team which could make or break the program from my opinion.

3) Related to number 1 and 2. Also they could be doing a horrible job trying to fill out their application. I don't care if you are the most helpful person ever, if you don't know what CONFIDENTIALITY is, personally I wouldn't select you. Just like any kind of interview for a job, if you don't fill out something properly, they would question how well can you perform simple tasks.

Anonymous_Rants wrote:

 
Part 2: "Super secret Game Sage facts!"
No I won't be revealing what I know about the Game Sage program, because I don't want any of my accounts suspended, and I know this thread itself can get them suspended. But this needs to be vented.

1. Game Sages get free junk from Aeria to be better at the games they play.
This is the most painfully obvious secret of being a Game Sage that mostly EVERYONE knows, despite GMs not wanting players to know. However I can confidently confirm this thanks to one of Superman0X's post. And if a GM is going to suspend my account for something a GM revealed ages ago, then just wow, way to be a good GM for suspending an account for something a GM revealed..

SuperMan0X wrote:
We give them a little AP, so that when they do play, they can get better results. We even have them showcase new costumes and such, so that they look cool.  

Source thread: http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?p=3839967#3839967
I won't expand upon any other secrets.  

 


Not a secret as Superman0X posted it on the forums, which is a public place. More like it's not a fact that Aeria likes to promote. Especially when trying to recruit new Game Sages. They'd rather get people who would actually be applying for the right reason of trying to support the community. If they kept it out in the common knowledge of the public, it's only going to attract those who are just in it for the AP and not give 2 rat farts about the community base.

Anonymous_Rants wrote:

 
Part 3: Loose lipped Game Sages
I cannot even begin to describe how many secrets were leaked to me by Game Sages. In fact, this is how I know so much about the Game Sage program. And honestly isn't a part of being a Game Sage CONFIDENTIALITY? Well time to toss out 3/4 of the Games Sages at Aeria, cause god knows how terrible they are at keeping things confidential. However, as much as I want to report the ones that I know personally that don't keep the secrets, I can't due to them being leaked on third party chat programs.
 
 


Yea, unfortunately there's no real way of trying to identify who would be good to handle confident information over the internet, so it's a crap shoot. And with people as you said leaking info over 3rd party sites, it's even harder to catch it happening.

I think the saying "Too many cooks in the kitchen spoils the broth." fits here accurately. So it's really up to the GM's of how much info should they convey to the GM team, and finding out any possible leaks, which can be hard in itself.

Avyn

Rank 5.2
Avyn
Joined
16 Feb 2009
Posts
12959
Location
Western Canada
PostedFeb 12, 2013 2:02 am
Of course being selected as a GS has a lot to do with the GS team and GM team liking you. A part of being a good GS is working well with the team. If you don't like them and they don't like you... don't bother applying, because you're not going to work well together.

Of course that leads to otherwise good candidates being blackballed and a reigning "old boy's club." Shaiya in particular was extremely bad for that, with some GS having so many extracurricular responsibilities that they were outright indispensable. That's what happens though when GMs decide that what they're being paid wages to do could just as easily be done by a volunteer. There will be volunteers that take advantage of that power.

Panderp.

Rank 4
Panderp.
Joined
27 Apr 2012
Posts
2790
Location
The Moon Brazil
PostedFeb 12, 2013 10:11 am
maaan you should look at DWO's GS team.

There are 8 GSs. Half of them are inactive, quit, never log on etc.
The ones that are "active" are seen once every few days.
Our forum's first page is half filled with threads that should've been locked or deleted days ago, and that's pretty much the easiest part of being a GS.

Our program never had any requirements for a GS, no screenshots or reports or anything like that. We've had a few instances of a GS simply sitting around and collecting the AP they received for "helping"

At least for our game, GMs need to actually look at the GS program again. Our last application was June/July 2011....

Then again, most of the problem stems from the fact that the game is on the bottom of the priority list for Aeria, and not entirely on the GS program itself.

This is why I don't play DWO

minuzaki

Rank 4
minuzaki
Joined
08 Mar 2010
Posts
1619
Location
Hell. Denmark
PostedFeb 12, 2013 10:39 am
Every game has "that" GS. Currently there is a GS who, from Grand Fantasia, is incredibly helpful, but is very inactive. Then there are the GS's in everygame, I look at them, observe them in certain situations. There was one instance where I very seriously asked a GS why they had tags.

To be quite frank, I believe GS's should apply with every app that comes up. Because there are again, those GS's that get tags and then suddenly, their helpfulness is just gone from their system. And then of course, what this thread has mentioned before, there are the GS's that completely abuse their tags in every way possible.


Ayvn wrote:
Of course being selected as a GS has a lot to do with the GS team and GM team liking you. A part of being a good GS is working well with the team.  

Pretty much this. In a workplace of this sort, there has to be some sort of bias GM-wise. Working with someone you hate adds tension, and prevents both parties from doing their jobs. You cannot work with someone you hate. Spending your time arguing/debating with someone while you're supposed to be doing something--well, someone, if not someones will be losing their jobs soon.

zimmey16

Rank 0
zimmey16
Joined
22 Jan 2013
Posts
18
Location
Los Angeles United States
PostedFeb 12, 2013 12:58 pm
GS's are much like a costume in your favorite game, most of them have no real function.

Alastoreo

Rank 5
Alastoreo
Joined
13 Dec 2010
Posts
3476
Location
Singapore
PostedFeb 13, 2013 12:52 am
Never knew players are still obsessed with being free moderators for a company that have $300/mth promotions.

BAM BAM my gingerbread went BOOMZ!
Display posts from previous:   Sort by: