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Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 07, 2013 6:24 am

Re: Magic Attack Effect on Skill Damage

Split from "AGE plans for RvR?"
robbill923 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:

Mattack boosts attack alot. I do about triple at 42 what I did at level 15.  


Triple the damage of a lvl 15 for a lvl 42 with good gears is crazy imo.

lvl 15 normal mobs have around 500hp while a lvl 40 normal mob has around 8000hp.

So the mobs for that level difference have about 16x more hp, yet you only have 3x more damage.

I think the scaling is very bad at the mo.

We should do less damage at lower levels and more damage at higher lvl with good gears.

Normal mobs need a nerf imo, even with good gears it takes forever to solo the higher lvl solo quests. I think make mobs die faster but give less exp also.  


Conversely, as we level, mobs are supposed to get harder.

SM in the US version IS supposed to be a support class, keep that in mind.

Also, the reason I brought up 15, is that is around the time where mobs become less vulnerable to your skills (get dwarfed from hitting 60's to hitting 40's).

There's also the stacked skill effect. While Damage is only 3 times as much, you also have 3-4 times as useful skills, and 3-4 times as many skills. At 15, you're basically playing with either Poison Cloud or you are playing with Dark Scourge. You're not playing with DC or Mephisto's Thorn. And because alot of SM skills are dot, their effects also stack ....
Because of this, my SM has 3 Dots, and 3 Aoes, versus one aoe and 2 dots; double the usefulness.

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mykolag

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mykolag
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PostedFeb 07, 2013 7:32 am
I think, it's tooooooo early to discuss balance.

Why?
In game a lot "implemented" functionality is not used so far. Like, Fire/Water/Earth/Dark/Holy/... characteristics...

in nearly all MMO, level range 1-20 very easy and can be done solo by any class for maximum 1 day... Later, more and more You should have party style. It keeps players in game - communication/fun together is most important during killing 1000000000 mobs Smile

Have fun!

crimsonlily46

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crimsonlily46
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Sherbrooke Canada
PostedFeb 07, 2013 12:44 pm
Reskilled to change a few of my SPs that were kinda wasted.

My Ice Lance Lv3, prior to skill reset, used to do around 280-290.
Reskilled and left it at 1, it now does 180-190.
Level 1: 36-42 and Level 3: 47-78
That kinda shocked me to see it went down that much, but meh.. I'm not using skills to grind anymore, since melee dps beats all of my skills. :/

Fireball 3 to 2 got reduced by about 50, yet only 15 of these are skill damages.
Quake 2 to 1 didn't seem to get reduced by anything else other than skill damages.

robbill923

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PostedFeb 07, 2013 2:46 pm

Re: Magic Attack Effect on Skill Damage

Split from "AGE plans for RvR?"
Rekikyo wrote:

Conversely, as we level, mobs are supposed to get harder.
 


Harder, but this much harder?

No other game I have played has it taken so long to kill *normal* mobs at high lvl with upgraded gears. I have played quite a few to end-game.

I stand by the fact I believe the scaling is poor.

Gears should imo make more difference in pve, especially with normal mobs. I also don't know any other game where you grind to level cap killing mobs 10-12 levels lower than your own level.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 07, 2013 5:46 pm

Re: Magic Attack Effect on Skill Damage

Split from "AGE plans for RvR?"
robbill923 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:

Conversely, as we level, mobs are supposed to get harder.
 


Harder, but this much harder?

No other game I have played has it taken so long to kill *normal* mobs at high lvl with upgraded gears. I have played quite a few to end-game.

I stand by the fact I believe the scaling is poor.

Gears should imo make more difference in pve, especially with normal mobs. I also don't know any other game where you grind to level cap killing mobs 10-12 levels lower than your own level.  


While I do agree than grinding on mobs 12 levels lower being an effective grind is pretty questionable, I really don't find a problem with it. The majority of high level mobs beyond 35 are considered "Elite Mobs." Some mobs have 4000 hp, while others have 10000-14000 hp. 4000 HP dies well enough. The elite mobs are tied to quests, to make them important. Since the number needed is like 15 or 20, Them being hard to kill, makes sense, with this being a mostly PVE game.

I don't know about you, but I kill Temple 3 in one chain of skills. Half of the mobs on Floor 6 take me 2 chains of skills. The other half are Elite mobs with high HP, and take about 3 skill chains. That is solo.

In a party of 6, we can kill the mobs in less than 10 seconds.

To me, this is meant to encourage not only balance between difficulty and quests, but to promote partying, because it makes soloing painful, but makes parties enjoyable.

crimsonlily46

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PostedFeb 15, 2013 11:02 pm
Is there anything else other than matk that would increase skill damages? I just did some tests and I ended up getting confused.

So, I bought a skill reset brew, just to try some other skills as well as checking damages of previous skill levels. Sadly, I didn't write down enough stuffs while testing through levels, simply wrote the % of what I thought was getting used from matk(basicly, reduced bonus damage, then tried to figure out a close % and then I stopped there). But then did some more tests with maxed skills between 183, 311, 736 and 956 matk and that's where I get confused. Here's my numbers for 183 and 956..

773 matk differences and note that all my tests were done on Twilight Hornets(Lv10 outside Ledise)

Fireball 2
Base Damage(Description): 47-57
Damage range at 183 Matk (185-200)
Damage range at 956 Matk (310-320)
Difference of about ~18% of 773

Call Lightning 3
Base Damage(Description): 42-57
Damage range at 183 Matk (180-190)
Damage range at 956 Matk (300-320)
Difference of about ~15% of 773

Quake 3
Base Damage(Description): 189-225
Damage range at 183 Matk (410-450)
Damage range at 956 Matk (690-750)
Difference of about ~36% of 773

Ice Lance 3
Base Damage(Description): 47-78
Damage range at 183 Matk (350-360)
Damage range at 956 Matk (390-415)
Difference of about ~5% of 773

Ice Blast 3
Base Damage(Description): 84-105
Damage range at 183 Matk (250-290)
Damage range at 956 Matk (420-430)
Difference of about ~20% of 773

I was stunned at Ice Lance 3's damage range. 773 matk reduction reduced the damage by only 40ish?

I'm not someone good for testing stuffs, maths and whatsoever. Character Level and Target Level's contributes to damages or something? ...

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 16, 2013 5:11 am
Okay for one thing, I would choose more reliable mobs. As you level, the earlier mobs begin to take more damage from you (at 42, my poison on Ledise mobs does 104 ticks, whereas to temple mobs I do 84, a 20 point gain. I also gain roughly 20% damage vs Ledise Mobs on base damage.

I believe the level jump effect is obscuring your results, and I am too lazy too level a Sorc and do it myself. If you were to repeat your experiment with, say level 26+ mobs (like Unknown forest, I think that damage handicap will dissapear, making your results more reliable.

It is possible that is not the case, but just try it Smile

BTW; you don't divide by the DIFFERENCE in magic attack (956 - 183); You divide it by the totals (183 and 956).

Remember, the amounts you are subtracting to divine your magic attack based damages are the Nominator; The Denominator would be the WHOLE Magic attack.

That being said, I find your Damage of fire on Mobs of low level to be laughable, indicating I think Sorceress damage has some serious issues.

-SM basic skills with 917 (using no bruiser)
Unholy Spear ~350-360
Dark Circle ~ 420-450
Dark Scourge ~ 530
Death's Cauldron 2 ~670
Night Terrors ~ 530
Poison Arrow ~ 295-310
Poison Cloud ~ 300-320

In other words, my damage averages are much higher, and my ticks are twice as fast. That's rough.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 16, 2013 6:05 am
P.S. I ran some numbers on those mobs with my SM; All them saw % increases as well; from 29 -57% were the numbers I ran on damage.

Keep in mind that there well may be an error in the magic attack totals because some of the damage bonus might be reflected off the base damage multipled by the mob's bonus damage.

If fact I ran new numbers at 252 mattack as well, and my numbers were just as if not more askewed than yours.

If I want to, at some point I'll run several more tests on more reliable mobs.

I'll also try to discover what the damage premium on lower level mobs is.

I do want to emphasize though: I play to have fun. Calculating all this isn't very fun lol. So I'll do so on my own schedule lol.

crimsonlily46

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PostedFeb 16, 2013 11:03 am
Preview.. wiped my post.. omg... It sent me back to the topic.. It was the only place I noted everything, ****. I will just quickly summarize and try to remember the numbers as close as possible...

I did some tests on Lv35 orcs, I still don't get it. (For description's base damage, see post above)
Fireball 2 was around 155-170 at 183 and 240-250 at 956.
Ice Lance 3 was still weird with 280-290 at 183 and 295-310 at 956.
I don't remember anything else tbh, but just these 2 should be enough I guess.

I believe it is no mystery that sorceresses are weak. Even if I get 1.6k Matk(and that's leaving myself with 1.3k hp at 42+bp accessories), according to the sorc I asked that actually had that much matk, I'd barely hit as much as your Unholy Spear with a Fireball 3 and you only have 900matk.. SMs hits hard, have high dot and can heal.. <.<

and yeah, I agree, this is boring. Pretty much made me ragequit for the night last night.

I may redo my tests later to get you the numbers, if you need them, but going to take a break, this kinda got me a little angry to lose all of my post.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedFeb 16, 2013 12:25 pm
Keep in mind fireball is your first tier skills.

I'm more interested in your intermediate level attacks, like Lightning Storm, Quake, Entangling Roots, Whirlwind, firestorm.

The two you mentioned are basic skills, so they will ofc have low damage (my Unholy Spear and Poison Arrpw's base is similar).

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