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Killa_1112

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Killa_1112
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PostedFeb 14, 2013 3:25 pm
billdoor wrote:
While you might feel Avyn is wrong in his conclusions, Paladin, he and Killa are bang on in how Aeria is being viewed by its community. You might do well to ask yourself whose perception of the company is the more important for its reputation in the long run, its customers or its management.

For those of us who have been part of your community for a good number of years now, we have SEEN these changes. Your game management teams have grown increasingly more insular and GM/PM interaction increasingly more rare. Your new community members might not see this, but those that have been around the block for a while DO. We see that the levels of service and interaction that we were semi-happy with at best in the outset has deteriorated to a level that is now well beyond the point of what is acceptable.

Superman0X ventured the opinion a while ago that if people kept paying for games hosted by Aeria, that meant they were happy with Aeria as a game host. I will not pick up that debate, except to say that the fact that I am still around and paying while being MOST unhappy with the direction Aeria has taken over the last three years, is but one proof that his conclusion is wrong. If I want to keep on playing Shaiya, my choice is between playing and paying at Aeria and being unhappy with the legal host, or playing illegally on a private server. Several have chosen the latter, while I, being a law-abiding person, is LEFT WITH the INFERIOR service of a legal monopoly. I know well what services private Shaiya servers provide their players, and those players are unanimous that while the challenge of playing Shaiya there doesn't keep their interest going, the customer service is beyond compare. Now, who's the one with an image issue?

Aeria hosts games people want to play, but Aeria doesn't give the impression, and here I repeat IMPRESSION, of caring two beans about their communities. You would be doing yourselves no ends of good with at least appearing to take an interest in your communities, as in contrast to what it looked like 3-4 years ago, the company's apparent interest in them now is ZERO.

In the rare cases your employees interact in public (and some promotion is not involved), they are mostly snide, sarcastic or oracular. Aeria has made being vague an art. Even the simplest announcements are made in the most ambiguous manner possible, leaving players unsure of what will ACTUALLY happen, what the rules of a promotion is, or simply what is going on. One is led to think that the first thing a new GM is taught is to make sure no statement is ever written in a clear and unambiguous manner. You are keeping everyone guessing, and in the worst cases this leads to people being banned.

Aeria the company of 2013 does Aeria the company whose community I joined in 2008 no justice. Aeria was never perfect, but your increasing imperviousness to take feedback in order to INCREASE the satisfaction of your communities has shown what abyss you have fallen into in terms of cultivating a healthy player community.

While I might be happy to see a reply from Paladin or Superman here, I would be vastly more mollified by seeing ACTUAL GM and PM interaction increased in the various game communities. THAT would be making a difference.

What you guys have for some reason always appeared to fail to appreciate is the gap between what you SAY Aeria is doing and what it APPEARS to the players you are doing. As long as that gap is perceived in the deficit of Aeria, you will be losing community confidence. You want the equation of

Code:
Aeria's quality of product / Community expectations


to be as close to 1 or above (if possible). As long as that is in a severe deficit, you have a problem. Communicating with the community might amount to window dressing at times, but if you are to appear to take an actual interest, it's actually even better that you say SOMETHING than nothing at all, as long as the something is honest and forthright. Aeria has gotten increasingly better at the "nothing" bit over the years. The Mafia could take lessons from you on omerta lately.  

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn
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iBambi

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PostedFeb 14, 2013 3:31 pm
billdoor wrote:
 


This post is awesome.

GMPaladin

Aeria: Specialist
GMPaladin
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PostedFeb 14, 2013 5:14 pm

Re: @ Aeria

Killa_1112 wrote:
Avyn wrote:


  • Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - increase size and/or frequency of tiered events.
  • Scenario 2: Numbers go down - fire staff and/or drop game.
  • Scenario 3: Numbers go up - buy rights to another game and/or spread out staff.


Source: years of observation.  



Another perspective: You have told avyn he is wrong and have not backed it up with anything yourself.  



Okay.

Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.

Scenario 2: Numbers go down - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved. Potentially drop game if no one is playing and no money is coming in at all. Actually FIRING staff is very rare and has never been tied to the success of a single game.

Scenario 3: Numbers go up - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.



billdoor wrote:
 


Saved to my computer.

billdoor

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PostedFeb 14, 2013 5:26 pm

Re: @ Aeria

GMPaladin wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
Avyn wrote:


  • Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - increase size and/or frequency of tiered events.
  • Scenario 2: Numbers go down - fire staff and/or drop game.
  • Scenario 3: Numbers go up - buy rights to another game and/or spread out staff.


Source: years of observation.  



Another perspective: You have told avyn he is wrong and have not backed it up with anything yourself.  



Okay.

Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.

Scenario 2: Numbers go down - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved. Potentially drop game if no one is playing and no money is coming in at all. Actually FIRING staff is very rare and has never been tied to the success of a single game.

Scenario 3: Numbers go up - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.  


Again, what you do (or imply you do) is usually quite different from what it is perceived you are doing. That Avyn bases his claims on "years of observation" should be a fair indication what the members of the community have read into what has actually been offered them of information.

SeasonsEnd/MadManMoon/Uigeadail - retired from Shaiya as of May 10th 2014.

Killa_1112

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PostedFeb 14, 2013 5:39 pm   Last edited by Killa_1112 on Feb 14, 2013 5:45 pm. Edited 1 time in total

Re: @ Aeria

GMPaladin wrote:
Killa_1112 wrote:
Avyn wrote:


  • Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - increase size and/or frequency of tiered events.
  • Scenario 2: Numbers go down - fire staff and/or drop game.
  • Scenario 3: Numbers go up - buy rights to another game and/or spread out staff.


Source: years of observation.  



Another perspective: You have told avyn he is wrong and have not backed it up with anything yourself.  



Okay.

Scenario 1: Numbers stay the same - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.

Scenario 2: Numbers go down - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved. Potentially drop game if no one is playing and no money is coming in at all. Actually FIRING staff is very rare and has never been tied to the success of a single game.

Scenario 3: Numbers go up - Buy rights to another game and begin process of releasing it (either channeled or client). Look for other ways to grow company revenue and which areas can be improved.


 
If you wish to improve revenue then start with giving people a reason to buy. I was a pretty hefty AP buyer at one point until I realized a few things

1) No matter how much i bough people who pour thousands a month into this game will always be ahead of me because the game is so AP dependent

2) Aeria never caters to the majority always the Minority (hence why new AP buyers give up soon and games rely on addicts to survive)

3) The tiers were getting more and more expensive. (trying to make the addicts make up the deficit much?) it use to be 10k a tier.

You think increasing the load on the few remaining AP buyers will cover the losses, it doesn't, it makes people despise the company, My RL friend once asked me to join him on GW2, when i said i was already playing an MMO he asked me why i did and what was good about it. I could not even answer him.

Everything about Shaiya is wrong, so very very wrong, the AP dependency, the gap between rich and poor, a minority that controls the ingame economy like a bloody cartel, scammers that go on sprees and do nothing, heavy AP buyers let off time and time again for offences such as racism (don't denie it, i know it happens, h3ll, i have SEEN it happen) an economy that despite ample suggestion from the community HAS BEEN IGNORED FOR YEARS pvp that is now so unbalanced a team of 7 people working together are nigh untouchable by the rest of the pvpers, the players needing to put major work in to prove someone had done wrong before they will do anything about it, people play the game for fun, they don't want to go out of their way to prove someone has been cussing them out and them be told "sorry not enough information" and what do we get from Aeria when we call them for information or answers? "Oh yea, er, we're working on it"

The bullcrap simply doesn't slide anymore, the community is tired of Aeria running from what is plaguing the game and instead focusing on what 'epic new release' the devs have given them. It won't deal with the core issues it never does, it never takes ANYTHING we say and actually does anything with it.

It needs to get its arse in gear and tell the devs to fix their crap because people ARE walking.

In short, it never listens, and on the very few occasions it does, it never acts. This is why the community is pissed off. If you want to get more money you need to fix problems instead of letting them fester, the players are now enforcing their own codes of honor simply to limit the damage that Aeria has done to this game.

But i have said all this before, time and time again, nothing ever changes.

billdoor

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PostedFeb 14, 2013 5:44 pm
You forgot to mention multiple cases of proven and reported account trading between heavy AP spenders going unacted on as well, Killa. Other than that, I think you got the bases covered.

SeasonsEnd/MadManMoon/Uigeadail - retired from Shaiya as of May 10th 2014.

GMPaladin

Aeria: Specialist
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PostedFeb 14, 2013 6:05 pm

Re: @ Aeria

billdoor wrote:
Again, what you do (or imply you do) is usually quite different from what it is perceived you are doing. That Avyn bases his claims on "years of observation" should be a fair indication what the members of the community have read into what has actually been offered them of information.  


Well then it is unfortunate that the perception of what is occurring does not coincide with the actuality of the situation. Allow me to clarify a few points as stated in previous posts as maybe a starting point to give a clear depiction of reality to help change the perception.

1. Aeria is almost constantly looking for new games to license and publish. Some of these games are client games (Shaiya) some are browser (DDTank) others are mobile (Immortalis) and still others are channeled games (Tribes: Ascend). We always try to have a robust pipeline of games coming out at all times to keep company portfolio growing and gain new players while retaining old players that may have grown weary of existing titles. This has always been the case and my team (Release) is always working on new titles, whether they've been announced yet or not Wink)

2. Letting go of employees has never been tied to a single game's success or failure. Just because Kitsu Saga performed poorly did not mean the GM/PM staff of that game was fired or let go. I'm not going to touch on actual cases of being let go as it is not my position to discuss those more private situations.

3. Aeria would always like to have more staff. However, staff need to be paid and despite the BILLIONS of dollars players think we make, that money disappears to many different things. Customer Service team (GMs, billing, and Customer Relations), our Human Resources department, marketing pay and actual marketing, localization, production team, release team, accounting, QA testing team, licensing of new titles, voice over work, new computers and hardware and various other expenditures tend to add up.

So it largely becomes a balancing act. If we hire new staff can our financials handle that cost or will they help generate new revenue to help negate their cost?

If we spend time posting on the forums, interacting on the shoutbox and in-game, will we have time to handle tickets and prevent huge backlogs that hurt both revenue and player perspective of us?

If we hire new GMs, which team do they need to go to to help regain their cost? Is it worth giving a GM to a failing game over a successful game that is understaffed? Would it be better to give up on the failing game and move those GMs over to the successful game to completely avoid the cost of a new employee and the waste of resources on a failing game?

These are important questions and not always ones we can really share with our players as they are fairly private internal decisions until they are made and are publicly shown.



Now of course this doesn't mean we can not improve. We are a growing company, we're at the largest we've ever been with employees in three different countries with millions of players and a large portfolio of games. Sometimes the larger a company gets, the more distant they become with their customers. This is not something that we want to happen however and we are taking steps to prevent this, not including my own inroads.

Couple examples: The customer relations team. Has been successful in reaching out to players who have left or haven't been around for sometime and helping solve their issue and back to playing. They have also helped some players with major issues when the GM team could not. They have talked to players both on the phone and in person to help them out. As they have been shown to be successful, they should continue to grow and help out more.

GMLeo: Has been working alongside the launch of DKOnline to help the community and continually gather feedback and offer support. You can view some of his efforts here:
http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=1878481
As his efforts are shown to be successful, this will also expand.



Hopefully this helps give a slightly more in-depth look at some of the roads we're trying to pave and smooth out as we go forward. Feel free to spread this around as to help remove some of the more inaccurate perceptions. I do like threads like this because they make me think and consider angles and opinions I myself could not have.

~Paladin

Superman0X

GameMaster: USA
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PostedFeb 14, 2013 7:26 pm
billdoor wrote:
While you might feel Avyn is wrong in his conclusions, Paladin, he and Killa are bang on in how Aeria is being viewed by its community. You might do well to ask yourself whose perception of the company is the more important for its reputation in the long run, its customers or its management.  


Players overestimate the efficiency of Aeria (or business in general). Most new acquisitions take at least a year (some multiple years). I do not know whether to be flattered, or insulted that players think we can do this in a month (or two).

billdoor wrote:
Superman0X ventured the opinion a while ago that if people kept paying for games hosted by Aeria, that meant they were happy with Aeria as a game host. I will not pick up that debate, except to say that the fact that I am still around and paying while being MOST unhappy with the direction Aeria has taken over the last three years, is but one proof that his conclusion is wrong. If I want to keep on playing Shaiya, my choice is between playing and paying at Aeria and being unhappy with the legal host, or playing illegally on a private server. Several have chosen the latter, while I, being a law-abiding person, is LEFT WITH the INFERIOR service of a legal monopoly. I know well what services private Shaiya servers provide their players, and those players are unanimous that while the challenge of playing Shaiya there doesn't keep their interest going, the customer service is beyond compare. Now, who's the one with an image issue?  

I think a better paraphrase is that people who continue to spend, are satisfied enough with the service received, to continue to spend. I do agree that 'Happy' is subjective.

I also think that when you are comparing legal services to illegal services, that the constraints of business different for each. If we didn't have to pay for the products that we offer, it would drastically change our business approach.

billdoor wrote:
Aeria hosts games people want to play, but Aeria doesn't give the impression, and here I repeat IMPRESSION, of caring two beans about their communities. You would be doing yourselves no ends of good with at least appearing to take an interest in your communities, as in contrast to what it looked like 3-4 years ago, the company's apparent interest in them now is ZERO.

In the rare cases your employees interact in public (and some promotion is not involved), they are mostly snide, sarcastic or oracular. Aeria has made being vague an art. Even the simplest announcements are made in the most ambiguous manner possible, leaving players unsure of what will ACTUALLY happen, what the rules of a promotion is, or simply what is going on. One is led to think that the first thing a new GM is taught is to make sure no statement is ever written in a clear and unambiguous manner. You are keeping everyone guessing, and in the worst cases this leads to people being banned.  


I would agree that our brand marketing... well sucks. Luckily we have some great staff, and volunteers, which does earn us some goodwill. Without this, well, I don't think we would even be talking with you here.

Killa_1112

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PostedFeb 14, 2013 7:36 pm
Superman0X wrote:
billdoor wrote:
While you might feel Avyn is wrong in his conclusions, Paladin, he and Killa are bang on in how Aeria is being viewed by its community. You might do well to ask yourself whose perception of the company is the more important for its reputation in the long run, its customers or its management.  


Players overestimate the efficiency of Aeria (or business in general). Most new acquisitions take at least a year (some multiple years). I do not know whether to be flattered, or insulted that players think we can do this in a month (or two).  
Consider it feedback to promote effeciancy, but the fact many of the issues i pointed out have been around far longer than a year suggest quite a few negative things....

Superman0X wrote:
billdoor wrote:
Superman0X ventured the opinion a while ago that if people kept paying for games hosted by Aeria, that meant they were happy with Aeria as a game host. I will not pick up that debate, except to say that the fact that I am still around and paying while being MOST unhappy with the direction Aeria has taken over the last three years, is but one proof that his conclusion is wrong. If I want to keep on playing Shaiya, my choice is between playing and paying at Aeria and being unhappy with the legal host, or playing illegally on a private server. Several have chosen the latter, while I, being a law-abiding person, is LEFT WITH the INFERIOR service of a legal monopoly. I know well what services private Shaiya servers provide their players, and those players are unanimous that while the challenge of playing Shaiya there doesn't keep their interest going, the customer service is beyond compare. Now, who's the one with an image issue?  

I think a better paraphrase is that people who continue to spend, are satisfied enough with the service received, to continue to spend. I do agree that 'Happy' is subjective.  
They are addicted, addiction is a sickness, using that sickness for your own gains makes you no better than a drug dealer with the only difference the substance (service) you sell is not illegal, morally its just wrong. There is little to no attempt to encourage new spenders since the very core of the game (shaiya) is corrupted in favor of those who have amassed seemingly unstoppable gear from years of spending.

Superman0X wrote:
I also think that when you are comparing legal services to illegal services, that the constraints of business different for each. If we didn't have to pay for the products that we offer, it would drastically change our business approach.  
As stated Legal its fine, morally its just wrong, again you would have more luck trying to get 10 people to spend 10$ than 1 person to spend 100$. People only pay because you must to continue playing, and people need to play because they are addicted. You are using that addiction to make money, SE has already stated he pays but he is disgusted with the standard of service, but its this or do it illegally on private servers (which many people do) Its like a supermarket selling an item you want, but they are the only supermarket brand selling the item, you are forced to pay whatever they want for the item or you must get it through illegal means.

Superman0X wrote:
billdoor wrote:
Aeria hosts games people want to play, but Aeria doesn't give the impression, and here I repeat IMPRESSION, of caring two beans about their communities. You would be doing yourselves no ends of good with at least appearing to take an interest in your communities, as in contrast to what it looked like 3-4 years ago, the company's apparent interest in them now is ZERO.

In the rare cases your employees interact in public (and some promotion is not involved), they are mostly snide, sarcastic or oracular. Aeria has made being vague an art. Even the simplest announcements are made in the most ambiguous manner possible, leaving players unsure of what will ACTUALLY happen, what the rules of a promotion is, or simply what is going on. One is led to think that the first thing a new GM is taught is to make sure no statement is ever written in a clear and unambiguous manner. You are keeping everyone guessing, and in the worst cases this leads to people being banned.  


I would agree that our brand marketing... well sucks. Luckily we have some great staff, and volunteers, which does earn us some goodwill. Without this, well, I don't think we would even be talking with you here.  
I have no quarrels with the staff, its one of the few positive points to the game, but your management seems hellbent on pushing them too far, to the point it drastically effects your service. Tickets take longer and longer to get done, people lose patience, send QQ tickets, causing less interaction on the forums, less communication ect ect the spiral goes on. If the answer to not hiring staff is you need the money to do it then i refer you to my previous point: Cater to new ap buyers rather than try and heap the load onto the existing buyers. What happens when they finally realize they are being screwed and leave? What is your contingency? Close the game?

- Courtesy of the Great Avyn

CATGUN90

Rank 4
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Joined
02 Oct 2010
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Malaysia
PostedFeb 15, 2013 3:48 am
I wish Dynasty Warrior Online has more GM too....
Honestly Dwo used to be so popular and a good game too until the number of GM used to take care of the game seem to dwindles or missing.Weekend event and weekend promo tend to not be posted now and some bug like the non working item mall has yet to be fixed.

If Dynasty Warrior can't have too many GM,can we please have a the original GM to help to run the game that is GMVert and GMJadynn..please : (
Honestly when they were still around,Dwo was awesome and everything work well.
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