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DirtyBugger

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16 Aug 2012
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321
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Belgium
PostedFeb 05, 2013 6:26 am
XiaoJyun wrote:
snowglobe013 wrote:
So this is actually on eu AND on us instead of cw's on us only.

Btw: xiao im happy 2 tell you im not 1 of those rich dutchies with full ap n stuff so maybe ill c u in the tourney ^^  


I am saying that its kinnd of selfish for the people who ALWAYS win to ALWAYS participate in these ˝not-so-big˝ tourneys, making it impossible for lower ranked teams.....also it seems brackets are not made completely random, instead a new team or one that generaly doesnt do too well gets apired with top team in 1st round

Also things to not is that these ˝top˝ players do have advantage, this mainly goes for pixel shots (for example shooting from 2 site to front entrance under that table),, personally I cant even line up those pixel shots due to mouse being junk, to make things worse, the game is horrendously optimized already, the AC puts even more stress on PC, freezes everywhere, and just to make things worse, since last maintenance the freezes are everywhere (and most people get them at same time), but they last different ammounts of time, getting 10-12 seconds freeze isnt cool, makes it even less playable

note that I am generaly playing at around 120 FPS and this happens

I am not blaming anything on organizer really, its mostly towards aerias piece of crap servers and the greed from the few top teams, but then again, I can understand them for going into every single tozrney, since the game is 0 fun othervise anyway, hackers everywhere, bunch of bad non-challenging teams, on the other hand bunch of tryharding, iyan+dm using kids

basiicaly there is 0 competativness in pubs, its either hax or p2w gear

meh

/rant over


ESL is good though....dont even know why I am whining here. Way better than MED cup with AC that spikes everyones ping and horrendous organization  


ESL is just trying to offer all the players in the game the opportunity to play competitive without having any kind of gear advantage towards the other player.
Players will allways have good gaming gear , but still , gaming gear doesnt do it all.
It sure helps a lot , but the real things you need to win cups are teamplay , good aim & gamesence.

And about this :

 

I am saying that its kinnd of selfish for the people who ALWAYS win to ALWAYS participate in these ˝not-so-big˝ tourneys, making it impossible for lower ranked teams.....also it seems brackets are not made completely random, instead a new team or one that generaly doesnt do too well gets apired with top team in 1st round
 


I think we got a kind of misunderstanding about the ESL & the tournaments.
Let me explain how the ESL works on the following things.
Im not willing to attack you or something , just explaining <3

Most of the ESL tournaments are Double elimination.
This means that all the teams can get a second chance after losing a game.
And you are saying that bad teams will face the good teams first , there is some truth in that , but it has to be nuanced.
All of our tournaments are getting top4 prizes , and some really nice ingame prizes (4K -> 1K AP)
So after each tournament the top 4 teams are known for the NA/EU scene.
with those results , the seedings get decided.
The top 4 of the last demolition cup will count as the seedings in the next cup.
All the other seeds are completely randomized. You can ask this to all the admins , they will all answer you that.
So it might happen that a so called "bad" team has to face a so called "good" team.
But the only thing the admins care about , are the seeds & nothing else.
Seeds are based on the results of the last demolition tournament.

So I hope I made this clear to you Wink
I dont want to create a huge discussion again , there is no need for that.
I just explained you how seedings in the ESL work & I am sure that we should keep the seeds. (Reffering to the random brackets of the UCG for example that I do not approve at all)

Grtz
DirtyBugger (ESL Admin)
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XiaoJyun

Rank 5
XiaoJyun
Joined
25 Jul 2012
Posts
3625
Location
Slovenia
PostedFeb 05, 2013 7:03 am
DirtyBugger wrote:
XiaoJyun wrote:
snowglobe013 wrote:
So this is actually on eu AND on us instead of cw's on us only.

Btw: xiao im happy 2 tell you im not 1 of those rich dutchies with full ap n stuff so maybe ill c u in the tourney ^^  


I am saying that its kinnd of selfish for the people who ALWAYS win to ALWAYS participate in these ˝not-so-big˝ tourneys, making it impossible for lower ranked teams.....also it seems brackets are not made completely random, instead a new team or one that generaly doesnt do too well gets apired with top team in 1st round

Also things to not is that these ˝top˝ players do have advantage, this mainly goes for pixel shots (for example shooting from 2 site to front entrance under that table),, personally I cant even line up those pixel shots due to mouse being junk, to make things worse, the game is horrendously optimized already, the AC puts even more stress on PC, freezes everywhere, and just to make things worse, since last maintenance the freezes are everywhere (and most people get them at same time), but they last different ammounts of time, getting 10-12 seconds freeze isnt cool, makes it even less playable

note that I am generaly playing at around 120 FPS and this happens

I am not blaming anything on organizer really, its mostly towards aerias piece of crap servers and the greed from the few top teams, but then again, I can understand them for going into every single tozrney, since the game is 0 fun othervise anyway, hackers everywhere, bunch of bad non-challenging teams, on the other hand bunch of tryharding, iyan+dm using kids

basiicaly there is 0 competativness in pubs, its either hax or p2w gear

meh

/rant over


ESL is good though....dont even know why I am whining here. Way better than MED cup with AC that spikes everyones ping and horrendous organization  


ESL is just trying to offer all the players in the game the opportunity to play competitive without having any kind of gear advantage towards the other player.
Players will allways have good gaming gear , but still , gaming gear doesnt do it all.
It sure helps a lot , but the real things you need to win cups are teamplay , good aim & gamesence.

And about this :

 

I am saying that its kinnd of selfish for the people who ALWAYS win to ALWAYS participate in these ˝not-so-big˝ tourneys, making it impossible for lower ranked teams.....also it seems brackets are not made completely random, instead a new team or one that generaly doesnt do too well gets apired with top team in 1st round
 


I think we got a kind of misunderstanding about the ESL & the tournaments.
Let me explain how the ESL works on the following things.
Im not willing to attack you or something , just explaining <3

Most of the ESL tournaments are Double elimination.
This means that all the teams can get a second chance after losing a game.
And you are saying that bad teams will face the good teams first , there is some truth in that , but it has to be nuanced.
All of our tournaments are getting top4 prizes , and some really nice ingame prizes (4K -> 1K AP)
So after each tournament the top 4 teams are known for the NA/EU scene.
with those results , the seedings get decided.
The top 4 of the last demolition cup will count as the seedings in the next cup.
All the other seeds are completely randomized. You can ask this to all the admins , they will all answer you that.
So it might happen that a so called "bad" team has to face a so called "good" team.
But the only thing the admins care about , are the seeds & nothing else.
Seeds are based on the results of the last demolition tournament.

So I hope I made this clear to you Wink
I dont want to create a huge discussion again , there is no need for that.
I just explained you how seedings in the ESL work & I am sure that we should keep the seeds. (Reffering to the random brackets of the UCG for example that I do not approve at all)

Grtz
DirtyBugger (ESL Admin)  


since its double elimination there is no needs to have set-up brackets...

you are just making it easier for the best teams to get to the laate stages and always get rewards

and yeah, gamesense, teamwork etc. thats what 3-4 top teams have, rest are just bunch of kids with decent shooting skills, I dunno why but its extremely hard to put together a team of 5 smart players in this game for some reason, maybe its cause of lack of players, dunno

nonetheless, all the top places are usualy those 3-4 best teams

I dont really have a problem with ESL itself but mainly the players themselves, though as said, the seedings or whatever are unfair, its batantčly obvious advantage for top teams, and think it from the orther side:

gets seeded with top team (the one that afterwards wins tourney) and loses....even if you are decent you dont stand much chance as a first timer...

further on, you dont get any experience whatsoever from this since you only get to fight THE best team and of course get totaly wrecked (not much to learn from that)

next off, you are probably still seeded low (or whatever the term would be), which means next time you are very likely to play one of the best 3-4 next time

when this keeps happening over and over I am sure just about everyone would give up, no fun in that, especialy since worse teams already get to play less (2 strikes and you are out, 1 when its single elimination), no need to even increase the chances of worse team getting best enemy as opponent

just my opinion

Why do Zombies want your Brains? Because you do not use them anyway!

spacefire11

Rank 5.1
spacefire11
Joined
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Posts
10411
Location
Sweden
PostedFeb 05, 2013 9:44 am
Same teams actually wins always

WoIfff

Rank 2
Joined
29 Apr 2012
Posts
635
Location
Poland
PostedFeb 05, 2013 10:08 am
So train and beat them!

And the Winter cup had NoiR 1st, caprice 2nd, ch 3rd and PIRKKA 4th. Doesn't look like "same teams wins always".

Yeah, pretty much CH will win, cuz they are the best now, like DefkoN who was winning everything before Smile

DirtyBugger

Rank 1
Joined
16 Aug 2012
Posts
321
Location
Belgium
PostedFeb 05, 2013 10:17 am
I agree with you that it is really hard to find players to play with that are mature enough to go competitive.
For me it was kinda easy , before I was in BiT I was playing with friends I met in public & never won any tournaments , but I was just enjoying the game.
Later on MrGold contacted me to train with him for the IeSF , at that point ava changed for me & I decided to apply for ESL admin as well.

But if I can give you a hint , play a lot of PUGs, contact team cpts every day if you can ring in the scrims etc & keep joining in tournaments. You will have a hard time by getting to the toplevel , but for AVA its normal.
The amount of competitive teams is low , allthough it's growing slowly Wink

urbanava

Rank 0
Joined
22 Jan 2013
Posts
23
Location
Switzerland
PostedFeb 05, 2013 10:29 am
Yeah, but Winter CUp was an Escort Tournament dude Very Happy thats something very different I think.

We participated in MED Old School CUp, for the first time in competitive scene. Bet who was our first enemy - myRevenge GER! so we were pretty fked. Later we saw some teams in like Half or Semi-Finals we beated in our Warm-Up stage, so that was pretty unfair for us.

I will not participate in ESl for next months, cause its just impossible to go far and win something and/or just have fun. We almost whined Sad

In my opinion someone should start a tournament for new, never in competitve Scene appeared players and/or teams, or for teams who lost some tournaments in first or second round. There you can play and train against teams who are as skilled as you, and thats the real Training who makes you stronger.

I would call this the loser CUp Very Happy

I'm young and have no freaking clue how I could do that, but it would be nice to see something like this in next times.



And i just wanted to add, that the most important thing to do is that the sensibility for players in AvA for competitive Scene should grow. Whenever I see a camper, even in Annihilation, I immediately quit, cause that pisses me off. Rage, QQ, any type of flame, using full iyan when we asked to do a classic, old based CW, destroys this game more than to MOST STUPID THING EVER HAPPENED TO AVA, THE PAY2WIN SYSTEM OF AERIA. Just watch a ninja defuse from Kava, Java- after it, noone kills each other.
Our community should be like that, cause this makes a game fun and entertaining.

spacefire11

Rank 5.1
spacefire11
Joined
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Posts
10411
Location
Sweden
PostedFeb 05, 2013 11:09 am
Yrah u right =]

By thr way wyat happen with esl casual cup or whatever it's was called?

WoIfff

Rank 2
Joined
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Posts
635
Location
Poland
PostedFeb 05, 2013 11:13 am
Comming in March.

Inarcadian

Rank 2
Inarcadian
Joined
05 Jan 2012
Posts
709
Location
Vienna Austria
PostedFeb 05, 2013 11:30 am
You can't dodge the "top 4" teams forever so you'll end up playing them at some point in the tournament anyway. The seeds have their legitimacy as it keeps the tournament interesting.

A tournament is not supposed to be the training stage of any team, a tournament is here to show the outcome of the training you've been through beforehand. Why do you think most of the top 4 teams don't play in pubs? Because they spend their time to set up scrims in PVP2 with one of those teams, that's where experience comes from.
The tournament is basically just a clean platform with an AC where those teams that put more effort into it than others, will prevail.

@urban/Surreal2: It was MyRevenge Int., not GER Wink

Anyway, beating a team in the trainings phase does mean squat. It was quite unfortunate that the Losers Bracket got cancelled, but honestly, what do you expect if 80% of the participating teams don't know how to set up the AC, report the score of a game etc.
With your mind set (I will not participate because I got beat early and had no chance), you won't get far anyway. If you're not willing to lose and learn, you will get nowhere.

Lastly (sorry but it had to be said): You're complaining about "camping" while all you did in the MED tourney was camp your base for 8 rounds, for 2min?! Irony? I don't mean to you down, but isn't it ironic?

Inarcadian aka WizRT (formerly iRefuse/IHIRefuse) ESL contact: http://www.esl.eu/eu/player/6567990/

XiaoJyun

Rank 5
XiaoJyun
Joined
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Posts
3625
Location
Slovenia
PostedFeb 05, 2013 11:44 am
WoIfff wrote:
So train and beat them!

And the Winter cup had NoiR 1st, caprice 2nd, ch 3rd and PIRKKA 4th. Doesn't look like "same teams wins always".

Yeah, pretty much CH will win, cuz they are the best now, like DefkoN who was winning everything before Smile  


everybody needs tournament experiencce before beating top teams, hard to get any experience when you get wrecked by the top team in 1st round, due toyour seeding thingy

it only makes it better for you guys since it makes sure the top teams advance every single stage, not better for players

and how was that anything new? these teams consisted of players from top teams, nothing really changed, thing is as a newly made team, we got dropped in 1st round already, and there was no losers bracket...

I dunno, but the 1st experience was not nice, and if next time i get matched with caprice/crackheads/blast in 1st round, how do you think that feels from a perspective of a player who wants to play competatively? eliminating the chance to play against even medium-level team such as mentor/metro etc. is just lame

All I am saying is its not a good way to introduce competative play to new teams that want to go competative by always stacking them towards one of the top teams, every single time (due to the seeding system)

oh BTW, I am hoping you introduce some sort of old school cup, since the other ˝organization˝ seems to be handled very unproffesionally with poor support, poor tourney execution and horrendously bad anticheat

Why do Zombies want your Brains? Because you do not use them anyway!
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