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silentplayer1

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silentplayer1
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PostedJan 28, 2013 10:53 am
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
Zealot1312 wrote:
Stacking? Oh yes, we have OP 40 campers who rq against other OP 40s when they can't feed off of weak players so you people trying to say stacking will kill pvp for good is just stupid. It ran fine when we had it before am I wrong?  


Extremely wrong.  


Well, I can vouch for PVP running fine when stacking was there, when the other side was OP OP, then sure you sat in arena for the rest of the round. Other than that, people didn't really care about stacking, it wasn't used unless it was a big arena like FA/EA.

Or to counter stack~
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Kalashnikovaa

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Kalashnikovaa
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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:01 am
silentplayer1 wrote:
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
Zealot1312 wrote:
Stacking? Oh yes, we have OP 40 campers who rq against other OP 40s when they can't feed off of weak players so you people trying to say stacking will kill pvp for good is just stupid. It ran fine when we had it before am I wrong?  


Extremely wrong.  


Well, I can vouch for PVP running fine when stacking was there, when the other side was OP OP, then sure you sat in arena for the rest of the round. Other than that, people didn't really care about stacking, it wasn't used unless it was a big arena like FA/EA.  


And I can vouch for the countless topics being spammed in GD of veterans and newer players begging to have it removed. 40 arena dying because of stacking. 70 arena completely dying for the day because of a simple lover stack.

I really get that you want to stack for various reasons, TSG, but sitting here trying to mask it with "It'll help PVP!" is just lol. I've played this game and been an active member of its community since December 6 of 2009, I can actually vouch that the party join option was one of the most detrimental features this game had.

FantasyToxic2

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:07 am   Last edited by FantasyToxic2 on Jan 29, 2013 12:29 am. Edited 3 times in total
As a respond to silentplayers original post.

I agree, PvP was alot more fun, not to mention active. I also think they should lower the amount of players needed like for 40 EA. Cause getting 30 ppl to join takes forever, and it usually ends up with the people joining WS again cause they're tired of waiting, and as Bambi mentioned you see people joining all diff kinds of arenas, but none is starting (except WSB that always seems to be active).

And I'd definitely say yes to bringing back stacking. (But maybe with like limits, like for only HF/EA or loverstacks for loverbuffs in arena.

iBambi

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:12 am
silentplayer1 wrote:
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
Zealot1312 wrote:
Stacking? Oh yes, we have OP 40 campers who rq against other OP 40s when they can't feed off of weak players so you people trying to say stacking will kill pvp for good is just stupid. It ran fine when we had it before am I wrong?  


Extremely wrong.  


Well, I can vouch for PVP running fine when stacking was there, when the other side was OP OP, then sure you sat in arena for the rest of the round. Other than that, people didn't really care about stacking, it wasn't used unless it was a big arena like FA/EA.

Or to counter stack~  


I think you're looking at it wrong. PvP didn't run fine because the stacking option was there and PvP isn't dead because they removed the stacking option. It depends a bit from bracket to bracket, but the removal of the option to stack certainly isn't the reason people are complaining over dead PvP.

minuzaki

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:15 am
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
silentplayer1 wrote:
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
Zealot1312 wrote:
Stacking? Oh yes, we have OP 40 campers who rq against other OP 40s when they can't feed off of weak players so you people trying to say stacking will kill pvp for good is just stupid. It ran fine when we had it before am I wrong?  


Extremely wrong.  


Well, I can vouch for PVP running fine when stacking was there, when the other side was OP OP, then sure you sat in arena for the rest of the round. Other than that, people didn't really care about stacking, it wasn't used unless it was a big arena like FA/EA.  


And I can vouch for the countless topics being spammed in GD of veterans and newer players begging to have it removed. 40 arena dying because of stacking. 70 arena completely dying for the day because of a simple lover stack.

I really get that you want to stack for various reasons, TSG, but sitting here trying to mask it with "It'll help PVP!" is just lol. I've played this game and been an active member of its community since December 6 of 2009, I can actually vouch that the party join option was one of the most detrimental features this game had.  
This.

Stacking was one of the most broken features in game. It wasn't as bad when +9 was still out, but when +15 came out it just became a trolling feature. And as you are referring to 40 arena, let me put a little insight on what stacking did.

I could go into 40 arena with my sin 15 times and have the same stacked team against me. Every. Single. Time. And if I RQ'd and joined mid game (Btw, please bring back that feature.) there would be another stacked team against me. In 70 there was one instance where an ENTIRE GUILD was stacking in EA. Numerous times throughout they're career in 70 arena. Removing stacking was fine. Sure. Lets have fun and say that we did bring stacking back. Then what? Twinks. Complete. And utter. Twinks. It'd put a strain on people who's classes actually need their PvP sets for PvE/Soloing dungeons.

And for the record, stacking DID happen in WSB. Triad, Equalizers, and 31337 basicly had nonstop guildwars.

And for those saying "Yea PvP was fun! We should bring it back!" Of course it was fun for you who were in PvP guilds, fully twinked out like no tomorrow.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

silentplayer1

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:27 am
Another topic for discussion:

Rage Quitting: Just the feature that ends the game if the other side decides it just plain can't win the game. Effectively it just removes the idea of winners and losers, more like winners, losers, and rage quitters. This feature allows a person to leave the round, and once there are like 1 - 2 people left on the opposition, the game just ends.

@TheDon'tBringBackStacking:

Your points are loud and clear, we want more discussion on this issue from more people however.

- Traizo 7x Archmage/iMarz 4x Wizard -

AnimeFan9001

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:34 am
minuzaki wrote:
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
silentplayer1 wrote:
Kalashnikovaa wrote:
Zealot1312 wrote:
Stacking? Oh yes, we have OP 40 campers who rq against other OP 40s when they can't feed off of weak players so you people trying to say stacking will kill pvp for good is just stupid. It ran fine when we had it before am I wrong?  


Extremely wrong.  


Well, I can vouch for PVP running fine when stacking was there, when the other side was OP OP, then sure you sat in arena for the rest of the round. Other than that, people didn't really care about stacking, it wasn't used unless it was a big arena like FA/EA.  


And I can vouch for the countless topics being spammed in GD of veterans and newer players begging to have it removed. 40 arena dying because of stacking. 70 arena completely dying for the day because of a simple lover stack.

I really get that you want to stack for various reasons, TSG, but sitting here trying to mask it with "It'll help PVP!" is just lol. I've played this game and been an active member of its community since December 6 of 2009, I can actually vouch that the party join option was one of the most detrimental features this game had.  
This.

Stacking was one of the most broken features in game. It wasn't as bad when +9 was still out, but when +15 came out it just became a trolling feature. And as you are referring to 40 arena, let me put a little insight on what stacking did.

I could go into 40 arena with my sin 15 times and have the same stacked team against me. Every. Single. Time. And if I RQ'd and joined mid game (Btw, please bring back that feature.) there would be another stacked team against me. In 70 there was one instance where an ENTIRE GUILD was stacking in EA. Numerous times throughout they're career in 70 arena. Removing stacking was fine. Sure. Lets have fun and say that we did bring stacking back. Then what? Twinks. Complete. And utter. Twinks. It'd put a strain on people who's classes actually need their PvP sets for PvE/Soloing dungeons.

And for the record, stacking DID happen in WSB. Triad, Equalizers, and 31337 basicly had nonstop guildwars.

And for those saying "Yea PvP was fun! We should bring it back!" Of course it was fun for you who were in PvP guilds, fully twinked out like no tomorrow.  


I was in <31337>, we did stack occasionally, but not that often actually. more often than not it was coincidence in WSB. We had a "Guild War" with Equalizers once, but that was in EA, and both sides stacked. EA stacks sure, but WSB stacks were pretty much either counterstacks or because a few people were camping at base(this was before the whole invisibility that lets you get away thing). I can't speak for Equalizers or Triad however as I wasnt in those guilds.

Anyways back on topic:
Stacking did kill the fun in arena, I'm fine with it being removed. Personally I think a stack limited to 2-3 people in EA only might be alright(assuming EA is still 30/30), but thats probably not going to happen lol.

Midgame Join: Yes, Bring this back.

Incentives: New costumes, Basic fort items (i.e SS2, MFI 1, MFI2) and maybe the 8% crit-dmg stones everyone's been wanting? I mean let them be obtainable by pvp so you don't have to waste tons of gold trying to o-clay for them(not to say you can't if you want to).

RQing: Midgame join solves this.


However you have to realize that a lot of this requires dev work, and our devs being how they are, this a problem.

Z909Z

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Z909Z
Joined
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Posts
268
Location
Canada
PostedJan 28, 2013 11:52 am

Re: So how's PVP? Let's talk.

Dead.
silentplayer1 wrote:
In the many reports that our GM's give us, we hear about new content, great updates, amazing additions. PVP is just darn fantastic, the recommendations of certain players have been utilized and I see that EVERY bracket is active and EA/FA/WSB run 100% of the time.

No, far from it. I think that multiple people across all brackets seem to understand that our PVP sector is undergoing a bit of a slow down. It's losing speed, our velocity is constant and our acceleration = 0, we don't seem to be going anywhere, is that bad? Maybe.

So let's just jump to the juicy stuff, which is: How can we revitalize our PVP to match the needs of our brackets and maximize our perceived "fun". Simple, we revert certain aspects of our PVP brackets to the way they once were. Well, gosh, how was our PVP back in the day? Ask around, the answer will be something like "It ran a lot more than what it does now /o/."

How do we go about doing this? We look at what made PVP successful in the past, and we re-implement these in our brackets all over again. That leads me to, oh wait, taboo, stacking, arena locks, midgame join and finally incentives.

Stacking: Technically speaking it was just known as "party join", "team join", whatever you want to call it. It was a feature that allowed players to party up with another player and basically guarantee they were on your team. imo it was a great feature, sometimes it was annoying, but nonetheless it gave PVP a sense of real teamwork and coordination.
Rather than playing with Bob or Joe, who have no clue what their doing, perhaps don't even speak eng-rish, you could play with you friends!. Con's: Man you can make people rage in front of their screens with this one, the people who will argue against this are like the angry german kid when he died in Unreal Tournament, jk...
Real cons are that it scares away new players, low geared players, makes their job of grinding their sets and leveling to the next bracket MORE difficult. It doesn't look good to the higher brackets because well, the most OP will just obliterate them if you aren't their friends. (add more if I'm missing something). I would suggest we bring this feature back, in some way or another, because #1 it can be an incentive to PVP, #2 it can increase your chances of winning, and #3 it makes playing arena more fun with your friends.

Arena Locks: This is a no brainer, we had this feature a couple of weeks after the merger between Siropas/Alice. Old timers know that it basically forced them to play certain arenas at certain times. What in game is sort of like it right now? Hall of Judgement. This imo would work really well across ALL brackets, because it takes away the mundane sight of seeing the same bracket start ALL the time.

Level 40's - WSB, Level 50's - WSB, Level 60's - FA, 70 - EA, 80 - FA, 90 - FA. Look's like if I want to play more FA, I should make a 60,80, or 90 alt, easily done. If I want to play EA, 70 is the only place to go, thank you Grand Fantasia <3. What should be done is that Arena locks should be put in place, so for example on certain days of the week we have certain dailies, instead of HAVING a daily that says "WSB" we should lock the other arenas that are not corresponding with the daily.

Sounds simple: Monday - WSB daily, EA/FA locked (sorry), Tuesday - FA daily, EA/WSB locked, so on and so forth.

Mid game join: Why the bleep was this removed? God knows, all it let you do was join a current game that was in action as long as there was room, so you had hope that there was another player who might help your desperate team. Instead of being oblivious to the amount of other games in play it allow you to join other arenas and help out. My recommendation would be to bring this back immediately. It served no harmful purpose and it made playing in arena way easier.

Incentives: Is there a reason to play PVP in GF? No, this is a pretty good PVE game, I completely agree, but the AFK lvl 90's don't and their numerous alt's in different brackets totally agree with them. What is an incentive? It's a reason to do something, usually the reason benefits you and thus you would want to continue said action. Incentives right now - PVP sets, brown horses, black horses, nuts and fruits, blueprints, and sprite cards. Did I miss something? Hopefully not, but there isn't a very good reason to PVP, so people can just glance over it and not care.

I understand the PVE argument, it's legit but for everyone else who seek to derive just a tad bit more pleasure and interaction between PVE and PVP, it wouldn't hurt to have level 90 players have to do arena to get their lvl 90 yellow mats or something along those lines...
____________________________________________________________________________

So now what?

Let's talk, the thread is for open discussion over what we can do to advance the PVP experience in Grand Fantasia. To unite in some ideas and to weed out others, and to propose brand new ideas.

Were there other topics I should have included other than Stacking, Locks, Mid game join, Incentives? Post!  



Yes to arena locks and stacking.. no to mid game join.

In terms of team distribution it would be nice to sort players based on their performance in their history logs.. balance the good ones and bad ones into teams

Zen_Hikari

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PostedJan 28, 2013 11:54 am
Your the last one I want to see stacking ._.

Posted By Aeria Mobile

iBambi

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PostedJan 28, 2013 12:12 pm

Re: So how's PVP? Let's talk.

Dead.
Z909Z wrote:
In terms of team distribution it would be nice to sort players based on their performance in their history logs.. balance the good ones and bad ones into teams  


My win percent this month is like 30%, because I have 16 no results out of 30 frequency. Following history won't balance out things that much tbh, not in the end-game bracket at least.

Suggestions are always great, but suggestions not involving devs having to program changes is those we actually have a slight chance of getting, lol.

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