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ljns

Rank 0
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10 Sep 2011
Posts
25
Location
United States
PostedFeb 01, 2013 6:42 am
dx0520 wrote:
I didn't want to butt in, but this thread is nonsensical and people are not understanding the game's changing dynamics.

Most, if not all, aspects of pvp that we want to have, the devs initially provided for us. We're the one's that wanted them removed.

- Remove stacking
- Remove timed arenas
- Remove bits

Even some aspects of PVE was our doing (indirectly affecting PVP):

- Remove unlimited MOs
- Reduce MOs
- No, raise MOs
- No, reduce it again

Human behavior doesn't change much when it comes to gaming, so regional differences is not really due to cultural differences.

It IS due to population, plain and simple. Our population is smaller, and/or our population is skewed in terms of fully geared players versus lesser geared players.

The fully geared players (in our region) is only a handful, relatively speaking. So any other region that is similar in population but greater activity in PVP is only because their distribution of geared versus un-geared is more spread out / even.

So what does that imply? Even things out by making things cheaper? Yes and no.

Yes, by making things cheaper, we will even things out.

No, because unfortunately, this game was exploited in its early stages, most of the gold in this game is held by a small group of players (not to mention significantly held items). As such, by making things cheaper and/or injecting more "stuff" in greater amounts, the economy will blow up, and who knows what will happen.

This is not to blame those players, because they played within the conditions set by the game. It is a difficult solution to resolve that has to consider the interplay of all (and more) of the aforementioned issues.

Right now, it "feels" sucky, but for those that have been here the longest, you can see the positive changes, albeit incrementally.

To Aeria,

Admittedly, it is very very hard for a newbie. I recently started playing on Quill completely fresh, with little AP support, even with my knowledge of the game and how to be efficient, it is excruciating at times. To the point that I just stop, and log back on my main to play. Imagine how a newbie feels?

Personally, I would recommend tons of low level (and non-tradeable) items and consumables as part of the first time spenders package that makes a newbie progress from levels 1-50 comfortably (and be able to +15 at least 1 weapon). Why 50? Because that is when the first yellows are available, and at that point is when a player becomes addicted to the game.

That is the point where you've got a potential long term player that is more valuable for your initial investments. The current first time spender's package(s) are pitiful, especially when a (newbie) player finally realizes the enormity of the costs just to be decently geared at level 50. Give them what they need for minimal costs to trek through to 50 comfortable, and I can confidently suggest that you'll have greater retention.  

Most of what is said in this post is right. We did this to ourselves. When i first started playing and saw how hard it was on a lowbie the reason I kept playing was I knew once I reached a certain lvl I would have the gold. now with a high lvl all the best ways of making gold are gone. Everything in the game is a gold sink. I have a yellow weapon that getting to +7 was easy but have spent a fortune try to get it from +7 to +9. 100% falure rate for two lvls. I decided today just to quit playing the high lvl toon. I can make more gold with my 50+ lvl. All the gold sinks did is make things worse. The answer never was to limit the high lvls ability to get gold. It was to make it easier for the low lvls to get gold. I admit you hear a lot complaints about low lvls having a hard time lvling but the real problem is not lvling but how hard it is at that lvl. It should easy at low lvls and should get harder at higher lvls.Building a man from 1-30 should be a no brainer, 30-60 should get harder each lvl while 60 and up should take hard work. right now it is backwards. It would not matter if you made it to where players could go from 1-60 in 1 day if you do not make it enjoyable you will hear complaints.This game has the worst sense of what a reward is. I am still waiting for a reward I want. the first time spender package needs the high lvl stuff replaced with low lvl stuff. or maybe be made lvl specific.let you pick a lvl package when you spend. you can use the lega as a guide. mo armor needs to be blue. I could not beleive when i got to higher lvls that the armor was green. DUH whos ideal was it to give an mo reward you can't trade but is not worth using. Where is the reward in that. It is like i am being punished for doing pt. It takes 12k to get from +9 to +13 and 18k to get from +13 to +15 all the dungs takes a high lvl to kill the bosses. Really all a low lvl has to do is complain because they are not really part of the game. They have to get a higher lvl to do almost anything.
PUT the game back in the low lvl bracket.They did try to help low lvls.you don't lose xp and get a uniform you don't need. how about a way to get special fort items 10-30 or even up to fifty.
What I found out about lvling is if you have a wek man and you just lvl you end up with a higher lvl weak man. You have to make it stronger as you lvl and thats not possable right now. I don't care what anyone says your not killing toro without good armor. Sprite armor only gives a lvl 70 ds 14k hp and toro can crit 17k a lot. that means it needs to be +10 to cut it. And 1 of the best ways to make it easier for a lowbie to make gold is forted gear. I got a 30 lvl that can solo pc and everything sells better from pc then it does from acv. the only thing I can sell from acv is the heart of earth and sky and acc. The rewards need to start low and get better as you go up. once you get above acv there is no rewards worth the effort. Once i get the vit 6 stones there is no reason to do more quests on that lvl because I get nothing out of them. 7G for a lvl 70+ toon. it is a waste of time i just do morphed dungs and by runs. I really can not find a reason to do anything else. my lvl 30 toon I will not even try lvling till everything is +15. That way I can use the armor while I + the 30-60 set.But i really feel I should be able to fort for my lvl bracket. but instead my armor will allways be a bracket below me. Most of this games problem is 2 things. 1. To much worry about end game. 2. The thinking that low lvls do not need good stuff because he is just lvling.
look from 10-30 it should be easy to fort because you get rid of that stuff anyway. But the stronger your toon is the more fun the game is.remember fun? Thats what this game is supposed to be but is not. And it is fun doing pc with out a high lvl to help. I love knowing I can join a normal pc party and do it but it is hard finding 5 toons that can do a pc party with out a highbie. BUT 5 toons can do it on lvl if their armor is good. then the high lvls can do thier lvl with out having to do a pc run because lows can not build there chars to the proper strength.
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minuzaki

Rank 4
Joined
08 Mar 2010
Posts
1620
Location
Hell. Denmark
PostedFeb 01, 2013 6:49 am
ljns wrote:
dx0520 wrote:
I didn't want to butt in, but this thread is nonsensical and people are not understanding the game's changing dynamics.

Most, if not all, aspects of pvp that we want to have, the devs initially provided for us. We're the one's that wanted them removed.

- Remove stacking
- Remove timed arenas
- Remove bits

Even some aspects of PVE was our doing (indirectly affecting PVP):

- Remove unlimited MOs
- Reduce MOs
- No, raise MOs
- No, reduce it again

Human behavior doesn't change much when it comes to gaming, so regional differences is not really due to cultural differences.

It IS due to population, plain and simple. Our population is smaller, and/or our population is skewed in terms of fully geared players versus lesser geared players.

The fully geared players (in our region) is only a handful, relatively speaking. So any other region that is similar in population but greater activity in PVP is only because their distribution of geared versus un-geared is more spread out / even.

So what does that imply? Even things out by making things cheaper? Yes and no.

Yes, by making things cheaper, we will even things out.

No, because unfortunately, this game was exploited in its early stages, most of the gold in this game is held by a small group of players (not to mention significantly held items). As such, by making things cheaper and/or injecting more "stuff" in greater amounts, the economy will blow up, and who knows what will happen.

This is not to blame those players, because they played within the conditions set by the game. It is a difficult solution to resolve that has to consider the interplay of all (and more) of the aforementioned issues.

Right now, it "feels" sucky, but for those that have been here the longest, you can see the positive changes, albeit incrementally.

To Aeria,

Admittedly, it is very very hard for a newbie. I recently started playing on Quill completely fresh, with little AP support, even with my knowledge of the game and how to be efficient, it is excruciating at times. To the point that I just stop, and log back on my main to play. Imagine how a newbie feels?

Personally, I would recommend tons of low level (and non-tradeable) items and consumables as part of the first time spenders package that makes a newbie progress from levels 1-50 comfortably (and be able to +15 at least 1 weapon). Why 50? Because that is when the first yellows are available, and at that point is when a player becomes addicted to the game.

That is the point where you've got a potential long term player that is more valuable for your initial investments. The current first time spender's package(s) are pitiful, especially when a (newbie) player finally realizes the enormity of the costs just to be decently geared at level 50. Give them what they need for minimal costs to trek through to 50 comfortable, and I can confidently suggest that you'll have greater retention.  

Most of what is said in this post is right. We did this to ourselves. When i first started playing and saw how hard it was on a lowbie the reason I kept playing was I knew once I reached a certain lvl I would have the gold. now with a high lvl all the best ways of making gold are gone. Everything in the game is a gold sink. I have a yellow weapon that getting to +7 was easy but have spent a fortune try to get it from +7 to +9. 100% falure rate for two lvls. I decided today just to quit playing the high lvl toon. I can make more gold with my 50+ lvl. All the gold sinks did is make things worse. The answer never was to limit the high lvls ability to get gold. It was to make it easier for the low lvls to get gold. I admit you hear a lot complaints about low lvls having a hard time lvling but the real problem is not lvling but how hard it is at that lvl. It should easy at low lvls and should get harder at higher lvls.Building a man from 1-30 should be a no brainer, 30-60 should get harder each lvl while 60 and up should take hard work. right now it is backwards. It would not matter if you made it to where players could go from 1-60 in 1 day if you do not make it enjoyable you will hear complaints.This game has the worst sense of what a reward is. I am still waiting for a reward I want. the first time spender package needs the high lvl stuff replaced with low lvl stuff. or maybe be made lvl specific.let you pick a lvl package when you spend. you can use the lega as a guide. mo armor needs to be blue. I could not beleive when i got to higher lvls that the armor was green. DUH whos ideal was it to give an mo reward you can't trade but is not worth using. Where is the reward in that. It is like i am being punished for doing pt. It takes 12k to get from +9 to +13 and 18k to get from +13 to +15 all the dungs takes a high lvl to kill the bosses. Really all a low lvl has to do is complain because they are not really part of the game. They have to get a higher lvl to do almost anything.
PUT the game back in the low lvl bracket.They did try to help low lvls.you don't lose xp and get a uniform you don't need. how about a way to get special fort items 10-30 or even up to fifty.
What I found out about lvling is if you have a wek man and you just lvl you end up with a higher lvl weak man. You have to make it stronger as you lvl and thats not possable right now. I don't care what anyone says your not killing toro without good armor. Sprite armor only gives a lvl 70 ds 14k hp and toro can crit 17k a lot. that means it needs to be +10 to cut it. And 1 of the best ways to make it easier for a lowbie to make gold is forted gear. I got a 30 lvl that can solo pc and everything sells better from pc then it does from acv. the only thing I can sell from acv is the heart of earth and sky and acc. The rewards need to start low and get better as you go up. once you get above acv there is no rewards worth the effort. Once i get the vit 6 stones there is no reason to do more quests on that lvl because I get nothing out of them. 7G for a lvl 70+ toon. it is a waste of time i just do morphed dungs and by runs. I really can not find a reason to do anything else. my lvl 30 toon I will not even try lvling till everything is +15. That way I can use the armor while I + the 30-60 set.But i really feel I should be able to fort for my lvl bracket. but instead my armor will allways be a bracket below me. Most of this games problem is 2 things. 1. To much worry about end game. 2. The thinking that low lvls do not need good stuff because he is just lvling.
look from 10-30 it should be easy to fort because you get rid of that stuff anyway. But the stronger your toon is the more fun the game is.remember fun? Thats what this game is supposed to be but is not. And it is fun doing pc with out a high lvl to help. I love knowing I can join a normal pc party and do it but it is hard finding 5 toons that can do a pc party with out a highbie. BUT 5 toons can do it on lvl if their armor is good. then the high lvls can do thier lvl with out having to do a pc run because lows can not build there chars to the proper strength.  
....After I got through that wall of text....people still do, and have solo'd Toroso with armor at +5. I've witness it happen. It isn't hard.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

jumpster91

Rank 0
Joined
11 Nov 2010
Posts
21
Location
United States
PostedFeb 03, 2013 11:39 pm
You'll win any fight if you have stealth.
So Sages, Assasins and Rangers win there.

Clerics will never be able to get any rare stuff from pvp.
Wizards lose to necro, i mean any class.

minuzaki

Rank 4
Joined
08 Mar 2010
Posts
1620
Location
Hell. Denmark
PostedFeb 04, 2013 12:05 am
jumpster91 wrote:
You'll win any fight if you have stealth.
So Sages, Assasins and Rangers win there.

Clerics will never be able to get any rare stuff from pvp.
Wizards lose to necro, i mean any class.  
LOL? How long have you been in this game? You clearly don't pay attention, much.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

miroshisama

Rank 2
miroshisama
Joined
05 Jul 2010
Posts
488
Location
Jamaica
PostedFeb 04, 2013 9:47 am
LOL i was about to say that.

ofc evenly matched a necro will or should own a wiz, but that's just class differences. but saying a cleric will never get stuff from pvp is just going full noob. if a cleric knows how to play, in any bracket, they can troll an arena and get their mvps easy.

end of month, clerics pretty much have their own ranking (SAINTS) since sages hardly ever heal anyone. so they have easy rose emblems to get etc.

not to mention that staff cleric has annoying dps at lv50.

KurysFlame

Rank 3
KurysFlame
Joined
30 Mar 2012
Posts
1439
Location
United States
PostedFeb 04, 2013 8:09 pm
Stacking could be interesting if it was somehow limitted. I've been having a very interesting debate in another part of the forums. Part of it branched into the goal of HF. Do we compete for fun or to find out who is best? As is, HF and most any arena with the trait of random teams is chiefly about fun, merely because there are to many variables going into the teams to find out who is best. Is one team really better than another if simply by changing one trait of one specific team member the winner could be the other? If there was a way to stack which prevented abusing it, by limmitting amount of times you could, by making a specific "stacking hour," or by making a entirely seperate arena, it could be rather interesting.

On the Toro issue... it's really all about evade and killing it fast enough. My mystic with +7 beast god's wish set rarely dies to Toro, and I garantee he's got less evade than most DS. Evade reduces the chance to get hit. Killing it fast reduces the number of chances for it to hit.

"Radical Edward's profile is a seven foot tall ex-basketball pro Hindu guru drag-queen alien." ―Jet Black by Rabittt

4gotten4eva

Rank 0
Joined
22 Jan 2013
Posts
28
Location
Sydney, Australia Australia
PostedFeb 04, 2013 9:18 pm
miroshisama wrote:
LOL i was about to say that.

ofc evenly matched a necro will or should own a wiz, but that's just class differences. but saying a cleric will never get stuff from pvp is just going full noob. if a cleric knows how to play, in any bracket, they can troll an arena and get their mvps easy.

end of month, clerics pretty much have their own ranking (SAINTS) since sages hardly ever heal anyone. so they have easy rose emblems to get etc.

not to mention that staff cleric has annoying dps at lv50.  

Staff cleric at 50 is like walking into a graveyard tho Surprised,

Except that one guy in Quill, but that for more because he was full +15 and I was +4 at the time. Razz I find that most games overall are best when both teams are even OR you have a decent team and the OP person/people on the opponents team don't know how to player properly!

Zen_Hikari

Rank 2
Zen_Hikari
Joined
30 Jan 2011
Posts
488
Location
United States
PostedFeb 04, 2013 9:30 pm
4gotten4eva wrote:

Staff cleric at 50 is like walking into a graveyard tho Surprised,
 


Yep. 50 staff clerics are like walking into a graveyard. FOR OTHERS

LiteHeals. Nuff said.

If your a Cleric, or even a Sage at lower levels, A staff can work wonders for DPS if your armor is good enough.

Level 41 Paladin, RIP The Burning Templar. Zennin Level 71 Templar, RIP

humaniixviiiix

Rank 0
Joined
16 Oct 2012
Posts
40
Location
Laos
PostedFeb 08, 2013 2:57 am
As everyone told me that this game is a brainless gears base game.
If fortification system and skill balance not change then all just a dream talk.

blamed RQer , just make battle banned status go 1h and no more RQ.
3 min is too short right ? then 1H.

But even you remover RQer or no gear player , good time never back.
What make PVP die is because people over power now , too power , too super that even "PVP" got killed lol.

Say , do you want to join a battle that you know you will lost 100% and gain nothing?

Best way is leave it like it ready was.
CHANGE NOTHING because you can't change anything now , it too late.
We all knew it .
I now just back off and have fun with my sprite train and craft, Sometime run instances with my friends and NO MORE PVP lol.

I think Aeria Game satisfied with GF like now so no hope about good change in future. New contents will add but đon't dream about game balance.

Kalashnikovaa

Rank 4
Kalashnikovaa
Joined
23 Mar 2010
Posts
1940
Location
Hell United States
PostedFeb 08, 2013 3:10 am
humaniixviiiix wrote:
As everyone told me that this game is a brainless gears base game.
If fortification system and skill balance not change then all just a dream talk.

blamed RQer , just make battle banned status go 1h and no more RQ.
3 min is too short right ? then 1H.

But even you remover RQer or no gear player , good time never back.
What make PVP die is because people over power now , too power , too super that even "PVP" got killed lol.

Say , do you want to join a battle that you know you will lost 100% and gain nothing?

Best way is leave it like it ready was.
CHANGE NOTHING because you can't change anything now , it too late.
We all knew it .
I now just back off and have fun with my sprite train and craft, Sometime run instances with my friends and NO MORE PVP lol.

I think Aeria Game satisfied with GF like now so no hope about good change in future. New contents will add but đon't dream about game balance.  



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