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silentplayer1

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silentplayer1
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PostedJan 27, 2013 11:29 pm   Last edited by silentplayer1 on Jan 28, 2013 12:03 am. Edited 5 times in total

So how's PVP? Let's talk.

Dead.
In the many reports that our GM's give us, we hear about new content, great updates, amazing additions. PVP is just darn fantastic, the recommendations of certain players have been utilized and I see that EVERY bracket is active and EA/FA/WSB run 100% of the time.

No, far from it. I think that multiple people across all brackets seem to understand that our PVP sector is undergoing a bit of a slow down. It's losing speed, our velocity is constant and our acceleration = 0, we don't seem to be going anywhere, is that bad? Maybe.

So let's just jump to the juicy stuff, which is: How can we revitalize our PVP to match the needs of our brackets and maximize our perceived "fun". Simple, we revert certain aspects of our PVP brackets to the way they once were. Well, gosh, how was our PVP back in the day? Ask around, the answer will be something like "It ran a lot more than what it does now /o/."

How do we go about doing this? We look at what made PVP successful in the past, and we re-implement these in our brackets all over again. That leads me to, oh wait, taboo, stacking, arena locks, midgame join and finally incentives.

Stacking: Technically speaking it was just known as "party join", "team join", whatever you want to call it. It was a feature that allowed players to party up with another player and basically guarantee they were on your team. imo it was a great feature, sometimes it was annoying, but nonetheless it gave PVP a sense of real teamwork and coordination.
Rather than playing with Bob or Joe, who have no clue what their doing, perhaps don't even speak eng-rish, you could play with you friends!. Con's: Man you can make people rage in front of their screens with this one, the people who will argue against this are like the angry german kid when he died in Unreal Tournament, jk...
Real cons are that it scares away new players, low geared players, makes their job of grinding their sets and leveling to the next bracket MORE difficult. It doesn't look good to the higher brackets because well, the most OP will just obliterate them if you aren't their friends. (add more if I'm missing something). I would suggest we bring this feature back, in some way or another, because #1 it can be an incentive to PVP, #2 it can increase your chances of winning, and #3 it makes playing arena more fun with your friends.

Arena Locks: This is a no brainer, we had this feature a couple of weeks after the merger between Siropas/Alice. Old timers know that it basically forced them to play certain arenas at certain times. What in game is sort of like it right now? Hall of Judgement. This imo would work really well across ALL brackets, because it takes away the mundane sight of seeing the same bracket start ALL the time.

Level 40's - WSB, Level 50's - WSB, Level 60's - FA, 70 - EA, 80 - FA, 90 - FA. Look's like if I want to play more FA, I should make a 60,80, or 90 alt, easily done. If I want to play EA, 70 is the only place to go, thank you Grand Fantasia <3. What should be done is that Arena locks should be put in place, so for example on certain days of the week we have certain dailies, instead of HAVING a daily that says "WSB" we should lock the other arenas that are not corresponding with the daily.

Sounds simple: Monday - WSB daily, EA/FA locked (sorry), Tuesday - FA daily, EA/WSB locked, so on and so forth.

Mid game join: Why the bleep was this removed? God knows, all it let you do was join a current game that was in action as long as there was room, so you had hope that there was another player who might help your desperate team. Instead of being oblivious to the amount of other games in play it allow you to join other arenas and help out. My recommendation would be to bring this back immediately. It served no harmful purpose and it made playing in arena way easier.

Incentives: Is there a reason to play PVP in GF? No, this is a pretty good PVE game, I completely agree, but the AFK lvl 90's don't and their numerous alt's in different brackets totally agree with them. What is an incentive? It's a reason to do something, usually the reason benefits you and thus you would want to continue said action. Incentives right now - PVP sets, brown horses, black horses, nuts and fruits, blueprints, and sprite cards. Did I miss something? Hopefully not, but there isn't a very good reason to PVP, so people can just glance over it and not care.

I understand the PVE argument, it's legit but for everyone else who seek to derive just a tad bit more pleasure and interaction between PVE and PVP, it wouldn't hurt to have level 90 players have to do arena to get their lvl 90 yellow mats or something along those lines...
____________________________________________________________________________

So now what?

Let's talk, the thread is for open discussion over what we can do to advance the PVP experience in Grand Fantasia. To unite in some ideas and to weed out others, and to propose brand new ideas.

Were there other topics I should have included other than Stacking, Locks, Mid game join, Incentives? Post!
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AnimeFan9001

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PostedJan 27, 2013 11:40 pm   Last edited by AnimeFan9001 on Jan 28, 2013 12:07 am. Edited 1 time in total
+1 to locks. Although, i'm not sure some brackets have enough people to start any given arena. 40 certainly does, as does 60, and 70. Other brackets like 50, 80 and 90 idk about. Basically these locks would prevent arena from being boring.

As for incentives, I would say pvping for yellow weapon mats(and some lower level fort stuff) would be nice, however I do believe incentives require dev work, which is a problem, because the devs are the devs.

Edit: Eh stacking is alright, but I believe it should be limited to the bigger arenas. Since you can easily get a 5 person stack and dominate WSB. Or maybe limited to a 2 person stack. Since when you think about it, stacking can kill arena.

Yes however to midgame join. That NEEDS to come back. When someone rq's and your team has lost hope, someone new can join in and turn the tide of the battle. Idk why they removed this aspect.

TheDiseased2

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PostedJan 27, 2013 11:55 pm
A much better balancing system is way overdue: my idea is for the system, rather than being completely random (which more often than not is not completely random), distributes the players that join an arena evenly based on one to multiple things (dont want to be overly optimistic by asking too much too soon), the major factor being even distribution of highly fortified players between both teams. In a perfect distribution system then the rankings of each player that joined would also be taken into account. Another idea would be incorporating some sort of class distribution ontop of this. This is a big ask but will bring a greater sense of "fairness" to PvP that i think everyone will be happy with. There is only one problem i can foresee at the moment, that being the loading time for games will be increased.

One more topic: Once you have joined the waiting list for pvp you are sent to a collective waiting room (like tge hall of judgement only it will be a collective room only accessable to the players who join, a separate room for each respective bracket. Thoughts?

minuzaki

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PostedJan 27, 2013 11:57 pm
Certain AP Items for incentives. Stop being cheap. Temporary versions of costumes in the hero shop are dumb.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

silentplayer1

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PostedJan 27, 2013 11:59 pm
Mid game join was just added, sorry, didn't think about it until now. Carry on!

- Traizo 7x Archmage/iMarz 4x Wizard -

AnimeFan9001

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PostedJan 28, 2013 12:03 am   Last edited by AnimeFan9001 on Jan 28, 2013 12:08 am. Edited 1 time in total
minuzaki wrote:
Certain AP Items for incentives. Stop being cheap. Temporary versions of costumes in the hero shop are dumb.  


+1 And to encourage pvp, I'd say fort items. Now i'm not saying you should let everyone +18 for free, but make it so A scrolls and items like SS2 and MFI 1 and 2 can be obtained through pvp as well. This lets more players with smaller budgets fort up to a level where they can actually compete.

Edit: Also 8% crit and M-crit stones. Those are essential for both PVP and PVE, making those available through pvp would make it much easier to gear up .

Mysteltainn

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PostedJan 28, 2013 12:07 am
Yes to party join, or restricted party join in groups of 2 or 3.

Yes to mid-game join, as long as it can't be abused to switch to the winning team.

No to arena locks.

Yes to better incentives. Maybe a title system for each class like HOJ.

But realistically, chances anything will be implemented are "none to none" unless other servers have the feature already.

Kalashnikovaa

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PostedJan 28, 2013 12:10 am
Stacking
No, no and no. As much as this would "jump start" arena for a few weeks, the consequences later are not worth it when arena CAN be started by other means, some of which you stated in the topic. The reason people don't PVP is not only because of the lack of incentives, it's the classes. Class balance is always a number one reason why PVP will dwindle in games, this isn't news, and Grand Fantasia is infamously known for having quite the screwed up idea of "balance" when it comes to classes and weapons.

Stacking only makes the small balance we currently have between classes in arena more warped then it is. Arena will die due to stacked teams of OP players with a pocket support as it did back when stacking was allowed. Removing the party join option was one of the best patches this game got, granted not everyone was happy about it, but I remember extremely clear how much of a problem it presented to this community when it was around. 40 arena more or less died down dramatically for a period of time because of stacking. 40 arena. One of the more active arenas this game has left.

I get that you want to be able to stack with your friends and your lover, which I noticed was a Cleric last time I was paying attention as I zoomed past you during my many rounds around Kaslow, but stacking caused extremely damaging problems to the large PVPing community this game had. These problems were so damaging that it was the reason why PVP died to begin with, and it's the reason why we have these problems currently. This game never recovered from that period of time. As much of the small progress we've made so far with this game, it would just set us right back to square one if one of the if not THE MOST damaging features to PVP was implemented once more.


Arena Locks
Sure. Dailies already somewhat do this anyway without the actual lock (of course, other then the commonly twinked brackets).

Everything else has been stated already in countless topics and is very much supported by the community and heard by the GMs.

sababafiddle

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PostedJan 28, 2013 12:17 am

mm

ikr
Honestly you can literally guarantee that any zone not named 40 will not start with any sort of regularity, without there being some SIGNIFICANT pvp incentives...AP incentives.

IDK what its like in Quil, but ponchee is something of a ghosttown, big guilds seem to be lucky to have 20-30 people logged in at one time and some of those could be alts....

Also forget about stacking LOL, look at how often 40 arena gets RQd because of beefed up teams. Than imagine if stacking was brought back..goodluck getting an arena not to be RQd. You would have to be able to have a feature where teams could join a stacking only pvp separate from basic pvp, if you wanted to test team vs team of chosen players.

+1 what animefan said about incentives

Also, it is seriously worth looking into putting restrictions gear. Such as having only a certain level of forts for a certain level and what not. For instance for 30 pvp +7 would be the highest fort available, for 40 +9, 50 +11, 60 +13, 70 +15, 80 and above +18. Same goes for restrictions on consumables and variant stones and what not. Like the +8% consumables for any level, but the +16% for 45+ level. And regular stones for any level, but variant stones for 45+ and Ancient stones for 60+. (i realize this prob is beyond a long shot given its not the most profitably attractive option, but in terms of player interest its certainly more attractive.)

edit; as far as im concerned 40 is the only currently active zone and only in wsb....zzzz. And as kalash said the balance in this game between classes is laughable at times. in addition, many have given up entirely on this game so i'm not even sure if talking about this matters..lol

iBambi

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PostedJan 28, 2013 1:19 am
Though I was never a fan of the locks when we had them, I don't see the harm if they brought them back. 90 doesn't start much anyway, and seeing 3/16 in EA and 5/10 in FA is getting stupid.

I would say yes to stacking, if they could limit it to 2-3 people. Or just make lovers auto join the same team.

As for incentives, they're apparently working on it, so we just need to be patient. Obviously the management for EN isn't as generous as the management for other versions (just compare the AP prices,) so I wouldn't be surprised if they were heavily limited in what they're allowed to add as rewards for PvPing when it comes to AP items.

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