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Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedJan 22, 2013 6:34 pm

It's in the Interest of all of Us: The Item mall

Let's create some relations between players and PM's on the Item Mall!
Hi AGE/ Players!

I'm going to try to start this off quick and sweet.

It's obvious one of the biggest concerns players are going to have/do have about DKO is its item mall, and the item mall's cost.

So, I'm going to suggest something radical.

While everyone is still using forums to to discuss their concerns about the game is a good time to retrieve information, and get a good idea what players are willing to pay. So can we start a project that addresses this?

If we get our price points right, we will all benefit!


(I do feel this is something we NEED, not want, because a supply sided market does not always have correct information, and in many cases creates a large Producer Surplus, and in some cases Deadweight loss).

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Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedJan 22, 2013 7:06 pm
I kept my feed back separate from the first post on purpose.

But here goes.

Conventional players have found the item mall in game. It DOES exist at the moment, although it is not usable. Simply go to your key configuration >Window Shortcuts > Assign a key for Item mall.

I and many other players have been monitoring it since Closed Beta, and it HAS changed drastically.

Changes:
CB hosted Power Stones up to Lv6 (40%)
OB hosts Power stones up to Lv4.2 (They don't even list a percentage of advantage anymore)

Protective Rune/Lucky Rune in CB came in Quantities of 10
Protective Rune/Lucky Rune in OB have a Quantity of 1

CB Lucky Runes were 50% Addition to success
OB Lucky Runes are listed at 10% Addition to success

Lucky Rune in CB was 10 for 999
Lucky Rune in OB is 1 for 999

Protective Rune was 10 for 499
Protective Rune is now 1 for 499

In my opinion these are ALL changes that would punish a buyer, if they are retained.

Arguments:
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Lucky Rune rate of success at 50% set players up for the expectation of having a reliable rune linking helper that eased the pain of the game's current (You fail run three on gear, and break runes 1 and 2 which already succeeded system).

Now it's quoting 10%. If the bonus is only 10%, and Runes have a 30% chance of linking, we're talking about a benefit which is still costly to players, and still offers no real positive advantage to players, reducing that risk of losing runes.

That leads me to my complaint about Protective Runes. If Lucky Runes to not offer an substantial rate of success, It means every link must be reinforced by a Protection Rune. Those were increased from 49 AP to 499 AP.

I've said it before: One of Shaiya's weakest selling points is its item mall. It reinforced Pay to Win, and this reliance on absolutely having two AP items codependent (OP/Lucky Charm; Lucky Rune/Protective Rune) is one of the reasons it is weak.

If this is the actual price AGE is shooting for, that's 1498 AP Per Link attempt, for around a 40% chance of success, and the required protection to not break existing runes.

I don't feel players wil respond well to this price point.
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Power Stones:
I find the fact the % chance was taken off the description to be shady at best, lack of room for the data at the minimum.

Also, the reduction in the Stones available from Lv6 to Lv4, Indicates a cap on success rates around 8-12 % lower than what is available in the data base. And although each success is independant, that reduces the overall probability of success on averages by an amount much larger (since the Trials are infinite, this is hard to calculate).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

These are really the two items that stick out like a sore thumb to me.
I like the rest.
But these two are probably the two MOST important to retaining customers.



I would like to mention one other thing: Temporary Costumes.
While costumes are nice, a well developed market plan would probably tell you, players respond better to "more costumes produced (variation purchasing) that they do to buying the same costume over and over every 30 days."

I highly suggest costumes that are purchased with AP be permanent, and In game costumes have an expiration.

Anarchist69x

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Anarchist69x
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PostedJan 22, 2013 10:08 pm
Don't forget inventory expansions. I understand 30 day duration as it's more money that way but how about we add option to purchase longer than just a single month at a time for a reduced price.

thepokerguru

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PostedJan 22, 2013 10:42 pm
I already said it.

A lot of free to play games, including this one suffer from the game being designed around a cash shop instead of a cash shop designed around a game.

How many games have you played where there is an upgrade system where the rate of success is terrible and the cash shop has item protection and item enchancement rate increases? (Probably a lot)

This is where they make money. They know players want power. And who in there right mind wants to spend 1000000 hours getting an item +12 with 3 runes they want?

If the rate in which runes are successful is 50% (Where did you get this information?)

Then in order to get 4 runes in an item with 4 sockets is:

(1/2)^4 = 1/16 chances or 6.25%

Keep in mind, to get Level 2 green runes, you need to combine runes and get lucky. So you have a 6.25% chance each time you get 4 runes you want. It will take you on average 16 tries. 16 x 4 = 72 runes ON AVERAGE just to get 4 sockets. (Keep in mind there are items with 5 and 6 sockets)


I didn't even factor in getting +12 on your weapon and armor.


The chances are realistically impossible relative to the amount of time you will ACTUALLY play. Will you play 5,000 hours? Will you play 10,000 hours?

The cash shop is your gateway to success in most free to play games which are designed FOR a cash shop.

thepokerguru

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PostedJan 22, 2013 10:45 pm
LordRapthorne wrote:


As for reinforcing pay to win, like it or not that's the whole point of an F2P PvP MMO. The more you shell out, the better your chances.  


That is what YOU think is the point. There are plenty of F2P games out there that have a reasonable cash shop and PvP. The choice to make a cash shop like this is 100% Aeria Games.

They can easily send word to the developers to change the game around to be more user friendly and create cash shop alternatives. They know there are junkies out there that need there fix of gaming power and aren't afraid of spending money AND defending the game when complained about.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedJan 22, 2013 11:06 pm
LordRapthorne wrote:


I can't think of a single (Free) MMORPG that has balanced, fair PvP and a cheap cash shop. Perhaps a private server, but not a commercially released game  


I can say it since they are not technically a competitor and AGE has license agreements with them: Forsaken World. Its in game inflation is nothing, and every AP item is resold and auctioned at very good rates. PVP is slightly lopsided until you get really rich, but it is possible to do without spending.


Btw: Atm On Enchanting a Kant's Cane:

Currently [4], Highest I've had is [6].

46 Attempts. 20 of those with Power Stones. Yeah.

Sovtek37

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Sovtek37
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PostedJan 23, 2013 2:12 am
I hate to sound cynical, but this is what is going to happen: Aeria will not change the prices. Period. They haven't reduced the prices of other cash shop items from any other game of theirs that went belly-up, so there is ZERO indication that they will do it for a game that just launched. Simply put, they put it at the absolute highest price they can. Why? Because no matter what, someone will ALWAYS pay to win. They WILL make the sale. So things will be fine for a while, because the game won't "need" cash items. Then end-game will kick in. Now comes the pay-to-winners. The game will be horrifically unbalanced, but they will keep throwing new items and content in the game to keep the "free"/low-spenders dangling by a thread. Then they will start to lose player numbers. Then, they abandon all pretense of balance and allow the game to be purely pay-to-win, to keep the cash players paying, thus keeping the revenue streaming flowing in the face of dwindling player numbers. Then the heavy cashers have no one to kill, so they quit too. Then Aeria makes a "Phoenix" server for the game swearing that they learned from their mistakes. And in the end, it is just about time to launch a new game. Now throughout this whole time, the publishers were making a killing. Not once did they have to really worry about balance or "customer" satisfaction.

This is just the way that ALL "free"-to-play games operate. I learned my lesson years ago, don't invest in them. Play along for the free ride, then when the going gets expensive, bail on it for the next flavor of the month being released. Sucks, but it is what it is.

Also, Forsaken World has no rights associated with AGE, as that game is made by and published by Perfect World Entertainment, a direct competitor. PWE ruined their games too, just ask anyone who played Perfect World about the stories of people who literally remortgaged their homes to get a Warsoul weapon in-game.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedJan 23, 2013 3:27 am
Sovtek37 wrote:


Also, Forsaken World has no rights associated with AGE, as that game is made by and published by Perfect World Entertainment, a direct competitor. PWE ruined their games too, just ask anyone who played Perfect World about the stories of people who literally remortgaged their homes to get a Warsoul weapon in-game.  


http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/es/viewtopic.php?t=108229

I guess you're right O.O . They used to though.

As far as PW vs FW, PW went through alot of bad evolutions. It was their first product. FW on the other game, has drawn a sustainable and addictive crowd, and while some players still remortgage their homes, in FW it is more a vice/choice than it is mandatory.

I have full faith that if given the right approach, AGE can work with player a bit on pricing. Quality games do not just jump into AGE's lap every day, to just ruin game after game overpricing. Customers are not endless either.

GMLeo

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PostedJan 23, 2013 3:09 pm   Last edited by GMLeo on Jan 23, 2013 3:12 pm. Edited 1 time in total
Hey Amar, thanks again for your initiative on this.

I wanted to make a few points about the IM for DKO.

First, we wont be releasing the IM until we are sure that our Open Beta is stable and all major issues have been corrected.

Second, the IM selection that you've seen in closed beta and even in open beta was not and is not intended to be what we will provide at the time of release. The items and prices in there were just placeholders used for testing purposes. Some items might still be in there, but it will be a completely different selection once we release the final version of the IM.

Lastly, I want to express my appreciation for you guys sharing your thoughts on this topic. We do care about how you guys feel and we want to cultivate a healthy, open environment with DKO. Continue sharing your opinions on what you do and don't want to see, just be sure to keep it clean and in line with our ToS Wink

Thanks for reading!

Anarchist69x

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Anarchist69x
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PostedJan 23, 2013 3:12 pm
Actually Superman intervened on DDTank item shop on a few items as per community request. So AGE can be reasonable on certain items but you've got to understand it's a business and they will only work with what is workable.

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