Author Message

esmorax

Rank 4
esmorax
Joined
29 May 2009
Posts
2947
Location
Netherlands
PostedJan 15, 2013 10:19 am

Esmorax's word to everyone.

Especially Gm's and Nemesis.
12sky2 esmorax’s plea.

First of all I have to say that understand it was partly my own responsibility for doing such a trade, however, it is not like the Gm’s stand powerless facing a scammer.
Just because this is a game doesn’t mean none of the morals in the real world apply here.

In normal day life, if someone gets scammed, the police wouldn’t say “it was your own responsibility, therefore we cannot do anything for you at all.”

It would be the end of the world and its legal system as we know it. It is true that, whenever people get online, it is easier to pretend or become a whole different person. However does this give a reason why crimes shouldn’t be tackled? Is this a reason why every individual is on their own handling their fate? Well, of course the answer is NO.

I always thought that the rules of morality applied for the aeriagames company. In fact, it was one of the first big pro’s the Twelve Sky and the Wolf Team community had.

I’m absolutely sure that the majority of the players hate these scammers. What they do is not right, it is against the ToS and even more, it is against the moralities the modern world holds.

I have to cite form the ToS:
“You must observe these terms, all applicable laws and also basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Website. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. AGE will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
You agree not to take any of the following actions:
(m) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates the Terms of Service, the Rules of Conduct, or the Privacy Policy; and/or
(n) Take any action that may prohibit other users from enjoying the services of the Website or games.”


There is also the increasing problem of name scammers, who as their names already indicated, scam players by faking names. However, I noticed that lately they have become increasingly aggressive and have started to promote illegal third-party websites that scam one’s account.

--Is it fair that someone who constantly verbally abuses players gets a punishment.. whilst someone who scams them and leaves with highly valuable goods where the player has invested a lot of time in.. can just go free to strike again?--

I understand that banns and other punishments have to be executed with the greatest care, yet with so much overwhelming evidence… it almost feels like the victims get punished for becoming a victim, rather than the perpetrators... all the GM’s do is sit back and withdraw themselves from the game. In real life there would have been people standing firm like the GM, but the majority would have said that it is not right for the victim to be not helped and the culprit going out free. This is not a matter of who’s responsibility it was, this is a morale matter of justice. There is no good reason to let criminals or people endorsing themselves in illegal activity go unpunished.

I recall a 12sky community, in which the GM’s actually not only stood for their ToS, but also for the players. I know of NO other online game or community where the player’s issues are handled with this level of care. I even have to say that the community service on another aeria hosted game, Wolf Team, are better. There, hackers and glitchers DO get their punishments with sufficient evidence...

Don’t we see that the Gm’s confidence in the rules is so great that it’s actually defying its very purpose? Namely that these rules were set up to guarantee a pleasant gaming environment for the players and their security. This game is far from the edge, but even I can sense it going downwards at this very moment. I feel that if we don’t do something fast, it might just end like our beloved Twelve Sky...

Yet all I see is that the Gm’s are using them as an sort of excuse to not carry out their so needed actions against these crimes.

I still have faith in aeriagames, yet by situations like these, even my faith is tested to its uttermost level.

Best regards,

Esmorax

****************************************************************************
For those who don’t want to read all of this:
In short…
Scamming should be punished hard, especially if there’s hard evidence.
The way it is atm, it seems like scamming is allowed and it will only continue to get out of hand.
There are many reasons why it should be dealt with, yet the Gm’s simply don’t. (most of the time)
At this moment it seems like Gm's are either ignoring these issues or allowing them.. (in a way because they don't act against them)

Thx for your time.


-es

Devotion Fujin(R.I.P TS1)/Nemesis Fujin G12 R6.(esmorax)Guild: NoRemorse Tag:Esmo. Wolf Team.(Ex0tic)Rank: silver bar+Pride: TheLaw Status: Retired *Mess with the Best, Die like the Rest* **H.A.T.E.R.S= Having Anger Towards Everyone Reaching Succes.**
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ulldis

Rank 3
ulldis
Joined
06 Jan 2009
Posts
1499
Location
Riga Latvia
PostedJan 15, 2013 11:10 am
so ya wana say after you sent RT with a frapeed video of you getting scammed they didnt do anything? o.o

R.I.P. Twelve Sky 2

TPJ

Rank 5
TPJ
Joined
23 Oct 2007
Posts
3301
Location
why u need to no? United Kingdom
PostedJan 15, 2013 11:49 am
GM will and DO ban scammers but YOU will not be told if ANYTHING happens to them as it is not for you to no about them. Bans are always and will always be between the GM and the person being banned.

TS2reporter

Rank 3
TS2reporter
Joined
05 Aug 2011
Posts
805
Location
Poland
PostedJan 15, 2013 12:04 pm
I agree that scammers and hackers should get what they deserve, sometimes we may have not enough evidences in our RTs because sometimes we just dont know what will happen, and not everyone got Fraps. If anyone did a report on hacker/scammer and you still see him in game after you got reply on your ticket, and ur sure that evidences clearly shows whats going on, you can always make follow up response and demand justice. And to peoples who cry about their own impersonators, If you see impersonator of yourself (or any other, if u care about keeping this game clean), SS him, and Send RT. Many peoples just warn others and leave things as they are, instead of making a report. Thats the main reason that these fake names are still scamming, even if we see them numerous time.

fdghj

Rank 2
fdghj
Joined
26 Jun 2008
Posts
617
Location
United Kingdom
PostedJan 15, 2013 12:25 pm
TPJ wrote:
GM will and DO ban scammers but YOU will not be told if ANYTHING happens to them as it is not for you to no about them. Bans are always and will always be between the GM and the person being banned.  


u know thats a stupid policy when it comes to scams right? if there is a theft, the court doesnt say its gonna be settled between court and the thief and the person that got looted wont be involved? thats what happens in " currupt " and " unlawful" systems. transparency is needed in such cases. guess cyber laws need more application on right to information act.

stratovator

Rank 2
stratovator
Joined
27 Feb 2010
Posts
779
Location
United States
PostedJan 15, 2013 1:37 pm
sorry for your loss.

but really, players need to quit namechanging constantly, making weird names with letters and numbers, adding X's, etc.

Stratovator - Twelve Sky 2 - Nemesis Server - Nangin's very own strategy innovator.

matje3773

Rank 3
matje3773
Joined
26 Nov 2008
Posts
1454
Location
At the coolest place in Belgium
PostedJan 15, 2013 3:29 pm
stratovator wrote:
sorry for your loss.

but really, players need to quit namechanging constantly, making weird names with letters and numbers, adding X's, etc.  

Haha ikr, I ncs'ed ONLY once... and my name is even so similar xD

<center></center>

raducioiubogdan

Rank 3
raducioiubogdan
Joined
06 Feb 2010
Posts
815
Location
Haywards Heath United States
PostedJan 15, 2013 3:54 pm

Re: Esmorax's word to everyone.

Especially Gm's and Nemesis.
esmorax wrote:
12sky2 esmorax’s plea.

First of all I have to say that understand it was partly my own responsibility for doing such a trade, however, it is not like the Gm’s stand powerless facing a scammer.
Just because this is a game doesn’t mean none of the morals in the real world apply here.

In normal day life, if someone gets scammed, the police wouldn’t say “it was your own responsibility, therefore we cannot do anything for you at all.”

It would be the end of the world and its legal system as we know it. It is true that, whenever people get online, it is easier to pretend or become a whole different person. However does this give a reason why crimes shouldn’t be tackled? Is this a reason why every individual is on their own handling their fate? Well, of course the answer is NO.

I always thought that the rules of morality applied for the aeriagames company. In fact, it was one of the first big pro’s the Twelve Sky and the Wolf Team community had.

I’m absolutely sure that the majority of the players hate these scammers. What they do is not right, it is against the ToS and even more, it is against the moralities the modern world holds.

I have to cite form the ToS:
“You must observe these terms, all applicable laws and also basic rules of etiquette and common courtesy when using the Website. Any conduct that violates the law in an offline, real world community is also a violation of these terms. AGE will not tolerate any illegal or offensive conduct.
You agree not to take any of the following actions:
(m) Engage in, encourage, or promote any illegal activity, or any activity that violates the Terms of Service, the Rules of Conduct, or the Privacy Policy; and/or
(n) Take any action that may prohibit other users from enjoying the services of the Website or games.”


There is also the increasing problem of name scammers, who as their names already indicated, scam players by faking names. However, I noticed that lately they have become increasingly aggressive and have started to promote illegal third-party websites that scam one’s account.

--Is it fair that someone who constantly verbally abuses players gets a punishment.. whilst someone who scams them and leaves with highly valuable goods where the player has invested a lot of time in.. can just go free to strike again?--

I understand that banns and other punishments have to be executed with the greatest care, yet with so much overwhelming evidence… it almost feels like the victims get punished for becoming a victim, rather than the perpetrators... all the GM’s do is sit back and withdraw themselves from the game. In real life there would have been people standing firm like the GM, but the majority would have said that it is not right for the victim to be not helped and the culprit going out free. This is not a matter of who’s responsibility it was, this is a morale matter of justice. There is no good reason to let criminals or people endorsing themselves in illegal activity go unpunished.

I recall a 12sky community, in which the GM’s actually not only stood for their ToS, but also for the players. I know of NO other online game or community where the player’s issues are handled with this level of care. I even have to say that the community service on another aeria hosted game, Wolf Team, are better. There, hackers and glitchers DO get their punishments with sufficient evidence...

Don’t we see that the Gm’s confidence in the rules is so great that it’s actually defying its very purpose? Namely that these rules were set up to guarantee a pleasant gaming environment for the players and their security. This game is far from the edge, but even I can sense it going downwards at this very moment. I feel that if we don’t do something fast, it might just end like our beloved Twelve Sky...

Yet all I see is that the Gm’s are using them as an sort of excuse to not carry out their so needed actions against these crimes.

I still have faith in aeriagames, yet by situations like these, even my faith is tested to its uttermost level.

Best regards,

Esmorax

****************************************************************************
For those who don’t want to read all of this:
In short…
Scamming should be punished hard, especially if there’s hard evidence.
The way it is atm, it seems like scamming is allowed and it will only continue to get out of hand.
There are many reasons why it should be dealt with, yet the Gm’s simply don’t. (most of the time)
At this moment it seems like Gm's are either ignoring these issues or allowing them.. (in a way because they don't act against them)

Thx for your time.


-es
 


Agreed.

IGN: xXGog3TaXx | G12 R12 100% | oOVodKaOo | G4 | HydroXonium | M33 | NAN FOR LIFE

LordRapthorne

Rank 5
LordRapthorne
Joined
26 Apr 2010
Posts
4050
Location
United Kingdom
PostedJan 15, 2013 8:13 pm
Scammers do get punished, if the proof of it is there, but that's about it

<center></center>

TheNinjaKitten

Rank 5
TheNinjaKitten
Joined
28 May 2011
Posts
4136
Location
United States
PostedJan 15, 2013 8:39 pm

Re: Esmorax's word to everyone.

Especially Gm's and Nemesis.
It is not partly your responsibility, it is fully your responsibility. The GMs are not responsible for incompetence.

Scamming in a game is not illegal nor is it against the ToS. If it was, under that logic, I should be going to jail for murder every time I kill another player. This makes 80% of your post invalid (including the ToS quote). The ToS is referring to actual laws that exist in the real world, however, here is a relevant ToS quote:

ToS - 14. Acknowledgements (e) wrote:
You may not hold AGE responsible for any loss resulting from in- game trading activities. You may not hold AGE responsible for any information that is passed between players. AGE does not guarantee the safe keeping of information that is passed between players and will not be held responsible for any resulting losses or consequences arising from the improper use of said information. You may not hold AGE responsible for any in-game feature or item loss. AGE does not guarantee the availability of any in-game items, any Services or any levels to players.  


As stated by multiple people already, they do indeed punish scammers if your proof is definitive enough and/or the person gets reported multiple times (in my experience). Though the fact is they don't have to, per the ToS.

However my suggestion would be to not get scammed in the first place. If you do, it's no ones fault but your own.

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