I wanted to post this here just so I can maybe not have to type it out in PMs so much. Synergy and Bobeche worked out a deal to allow them to attack our wonder. We know they wouldnt be able to defeat us so we set it up to where they would have more of a chance after each attack. The terms was easy We were cleared to attack the left half of HL. They dont own anything worth takign so we said we wouldnt bother. They were cleared to attack the right half and wanted the lvl 3 wonder that had Off archers in it.
The deal was you must clear to the wonder and Conq it. Once they defeated the citys and took the wonder we would move out. We moved a few citys out of the way and moved off villages to speed this up when they won. We tried to give them another lvl 3 but legacy ported into it. The goal was simple have a fun battle and get them more land so they can grow.
Bobeche then ported a city in on the open spot took wonder said move out or 2v1 war. We all know that when someone is tring to assist you in the battle by not using all thier troops and not using your top players that this is a low down and Bs stunt for what reason I have no clue. I myself spoke with Papa at the start and Even offered to move out of the wonder for them without a fight But he siad they wanted to earn the wonder.
As for many players PMing me saying Stiele said they joined in cause we have broke countless deals is a load of crap and he knows it.(That is if he really said it and wasnt misunderstood) Yes you can twist things around alot of ways but we have kept our end of the deal atleast while I was the king which has been most of the time. We did not even break this deal yet being blamed for it. I am sure papa took screen shots of eveything Him and I said in Pms I would love for All of the Conv be posted. If I would have know he would have pull this I would have taken them myself. This battle was to be fun with the end result of them taking the wonder by clearing to it or us just giveing them the thing But not after that little stunt. We said we could have a Nice battle and have more talks about Megering the kingdoms together to remove the 2v1 battles from the game. Everyone knows if Bobeche and Synergy were to merge the balance on the server would finally be in line. The game for everyone would be lot more fun and noone would be over powering anyone in battles.We also spoke about Synergy pulling out of HL and letting them control HL with the understanding they would need to work on building up more But the deal was they had to not takes anyones side. They would also be in battles Vrs legacy and Us if we chose to go back to HL but never at the same time.

At the end of the day all of the kingdoms need to reach some type of deal to either stay down this path and end the server someone merge to balance the server or make a deal that noone can 2v1 ever again. Everyone has spent way to much cash in this game for us to keep on pushing players out of the game which battles seem hopeless. Yes Synergy players could spend a buttload more cash to even the balance out but why bother with it anymore. The end goal needs to be Balance between kingdoms which cant happen really with 3 kingdoms unless we get a ton more players. This can only be done with Us mergering to Bobeche or everyone changing up a few allainces or players without it the end will be near and I hope everyone wants to prevent that.

Firstly thx to Bart for explaining his knowledge of leadup to this war. Obviously it's a classic case of 'he said she said'. Unfortunately that leads to a range of opinions by many based on wot they they think the truth is, but is it the truth? How do you know?

Rather than dwell on wot has happened can I suggest that in future these agreements be negotiated verbally but then documented, proof read and signed off by both leaders. You may think this is overkill but wots wrong in getting something right? Shouldn't we protect the investment by many and ensure fun for all?

Posting an explanation on this forum alone is proof things can be documented, although no offence Bart but your post would only be considered a draft. I'm sure it could be edited to make it more readable.

No-one surely wants to see the server die and become a monopoly? So come on leaders, be humble and come to some arrangement to stop this 2 Vs 1 war. Negotiate an outcome even if it means giving up ground. Work out a way forward, a new beginning under better rules so we all can continue to enjoy this game.

oznoel wrote:

Rather than dwell on wot has happened can I suggest that in future these agreements be negotiated verbally but then documented, proof read and signed off by both leaders. You may think this is overkill but wots wrong in getting something right? Shouldn't we protect the investment by many and ensure fun for all? .

Synergy has already come to the decision that any future "agreement" will be posted on the forums, no more BS stunts trying to twist words because they will be in a post in writing, also giving all members on both sides to have an input.

Synergy has always been open to a compromise. I would like it, and respect you guys a bit more, if you could either place proof on the forums of how we've broken these deals, or an apology with a compromise attached to it. I have been playing sice hour one of closed beta, been with eden/synergy since the start. and I can guarantee that our way of doing things, is to never break an agreement with another kingdom/alliance. so with that said, please bobeche and legacy. use this forum to plead your case. or come to an agreement.

lastly, back to what barrt said about loosing people over this and making the game unbalanced.... I tell you this, I have been around every time legacy's pulled a stunt and im tired of it. if we cant have a honorable battle with no cheap shots, why am I still playing? good question. if I leave over another bs stunt, how balanced would it be? so lets get things organized, and settled.

Frankly I think this focus on written agreements and treaties has to go the way of the dodo. No matter what the final "document" says each side is going to have a different interpretation of what was actually agreed upon, that's just how our minds are trained. Then it just becomes a game of who can work in the sneakiest technicality, and honestly who wants that?

If there is going to be something in writing though, there needs to be some kind of minimum amount of representatives on each side (like at least three or four) present at the time to draft and review it, to ensure that it's been vetted properly, and on another level to try and prevent leaders from hiding things from their own members. Posting the final agreement on the forums would be the final step of that process.

I saw a dodo walking out of court the other day, he had a wig and a cape on. *Just kiddin legal fraternity.

Just as in law interpretation is always going to be a challenge, but far less of a challenge from past verbal banter. Members deserve better.

I'm sure with a few skilled reps from each side a simple, readable document can be created. If the spirit of intent is right then both sides should not be employing any 'sneaky' technicalities.

Look forward to more dialogue on this matter as I think that brings out new ideas and the ability to create a platform for improvement.

Conditions for the battle Borislav vs Synergy:
1. Bor can attack on the right side of Harp Lake
2. Bor can defend on the left side of HL
3. Syn can attack left side of HL
4. Syn can defend right side of HL
5. If one of us gets a lv3 wonder the battles shall stop right away and the other kingdom will have some time to port out
6. Barrt and Fearless are not alloved to participate
These conditions was made before battles started in HL and agreed between Barrt, SirJanso and PapaBear. When the battles started Synergy found out that they couldn attack Borislav on the left side because of a truce they had with Legacy, a truce I didn have any knowledge of! Synergy then wanted to only include there wonder, so that was added to the agreement. Still Synergy where allowed to attack on the left side so they could get a better stratetic stronghold.
I made it very clear both for Barrt and SirJanso that to make conditions about war was new to me and this was the first one I have made, and to make it simple about when loosing or winning! As I see it 5. tells it all. Greetings PapaBear

Vikingchief wrote:

Conditions for the battle Borislav vs Synergy: 1. Bor can attack on the right side of Harp Lake 2. Bor can defend on the left side of HL 3. Syn can attack left side of HL 4. Syn can defend right side of HL 5. If one of us gets a lv3 wonder the battles shall stop right away and the other kingdom will have some time to port out 6. Barrt and Fearless are not alloved to participate These conditions was made before battles started in HL and agreed between Barrt, SirJanso and PapaBear. When the battles started Synergy found out that they couldn attack Borislav on the left side because of a truce they had with Legacy, a truce I didn have any knowledge of! Synergy then wanted to only include there wonder, so that was added to the agreement. Still Synergy where allowed to attack on the left side so they could get a better stratetic stronghold. I made it very clear both for Barrt and SirJanso that to make conditions about war was new to me and this was the first one I have made, and to make it simple about when loosing or winning! As I see it 5. tells it all. Greetings PapaBear

As someone who isn't aligned with any of the parties involved but who did follow the battles this seems pretty simple.

While Papabear is using #5 as his reason for winning the wonder Borislav didn't win any of the battles for the wonder. Since they couldn't win the wonder in the traditional way of conflict Papabear ported a town into the wonder area (which would be under protection) and captured the Wonder without a fight. While in Papabears eyes he "won" the wonder he and Borislav broke the "Spirit" of the agreement which was to have controlled fight for the territory.

Since Papabear isn't disputing the information that barthalimul has posted, Borislav couldn't win a battle for a wonder that was offered to them in the first place. The end result is that Borislav looks like a 2nd rate Kingdom who couldn't win on their own. Because of this they resorted to getting help from another Kingdom to take a wonder area that was offered to them in the first place free and clear.

Papa those were the terms you Emailed us after you ported and took the city. Our terms we spoke in Pms and In that convo you said You would clear to the wonder and If you take the wonder you win. You said that you and your kingdom wanted to battle for it so it feels like your all earned it. You also said that you didnt want the wonder for free cause it would mean less since you didnt win it. Like I said many times in our PMs Win or lose I would still give it to you guys. I just wanted some fair fights for players to have fun and none of the low down tricks or 2v1 like what we have been dealing with for a while now.

As far as interpretation is concerned how could one possibly consider the wonder "won" by simply porting in and conquering the wonder? The fact of the matter is that Papabear's city was surrounded by Synergy members, which put him more in the position of an infiltrator caught red handed. In the end he was in enemy hands and nobody could come to his aid. So therefore it was not a win.

We all want Titans to remain viable since we have invested much and still hold high hopes for the future. That is why what has happened is very sad indeed.
Borislav is our ally but when they grew stronger it was agreed that it would be good if they were treated as an independent Kingdom. It was however clear that they would never be able to stand up to Synergy under normal fighting conditions. An agreement was made, I had no part in this. A Trojan Horse was used to take the wonder which resulted in Borislav invoking the part of the agreement that entitled them to the entire island. This however did not result in a diplomatic argument but in the burning of the King of Borislav. Legacy was called upon by an ally to assist. Allthough we do not contest that the 'intent' of the agreement might have been otherwise there was a more important issue at hand now. We gave time and opportunity to Synergy to parley with Borislav to resolve their disagreement. But alas this opportunity was neglected. So reluctantly we went to war to assist an ally in need. I care not for agreements made of which we are no part, but I do care for the fact that Synergy was unable and unwilling to resolve this issue, knowing full well to what this would lead. Instead of their leaders taking responsibility for this situation we see their first warriors speaking up. You cannot question the honor of your adversaries and at the same time demand a solution to what you perceive as a lack of balance. Either you show respect, and we resume talks, or you accept the fate you have chosen...

The King of Legacy,

Stiele