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Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8406
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedDec 29, 2012 5:36 am
xybolt wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
AGE does not meet 2 of the three requirements for it to be considered gambling.

And their machines are not Gambling Machines. They are Game of Chance (There is a legal difference).  


in my country, you need to have a permit if you want to offer products which involves gambling, even a game of chance is in that category. Here, there is no difference because you are using real cash. They don't look at the content of the product, but at what you have to spend with real cash for and what you can earn, either real cash or virtual items or vouchers.  


Look up the definition of what is required for something to legally be considered gambling. There are three requirements. AGE's item mall only meets one of them. It has nothing to do with the physical or virtual nature of the prize/product.

Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.

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xybolt

Rank 5.2
xybolt
Joined
10 Sep 2008
Posts
15073
Location
Balegem, flemish region Belgium
PostedDec 29, 2012 5:56 am   Last edited by xybolt on Dec 29, 2012 6:16 am. Edited 1 time in total
Rekikyo wrote:
Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.  


you have to learn that there are people/government with other way of thinking.

I said firstly that what AGE does is legit in CA, but if their business seat is in belgium, they won't be able to do that or they get a fine.

Our government is thinking by that way, what i have written in my previous post. Even if you say that there is a key difference between gambling and a game of chance, it won't happen here. You - there =/= me - here

edited a /fail

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Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8406
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedDec 29, 2012 6:11 am
xybolt wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.  


you have to learn that there are people/government with other way of thinking.

I said firstly that what AGE does is not legit in CA, but if their business seat is in belgium, they won't be able to do that or they get a fine.

Our government is thinking by that way, what i have written in my previous post. Even if you say that there is a key difference between gambling and a game of chance, it won't happen here. You - there =/= me - here  


They are 100% in accordance with law of every region they distribute this game's service to.

xybolt

Rank 5.2
xybolt
Joined
10 Sep 2008
Posts
15073
Location
Balegem, flemish region Belgium
PostedDec 29, 2012 6:15 am
Rekikyo wrote:
xybolt wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.  


you have to learn that there are people/government with other way of thinking.

I said firstly that what AGE does is legit in CA, but if their business seat is in belgium, they won't be able to do that or they get a fine.

Our government is thinking by that way, what i have written in my previous post. Even if you say that there is a key difference between gambling and a game of chance, it won't happen here. You - there =/= me - here  


They are 100% in accordance with law of every region they distribute this game's service to.  


lol, i failed in my prev post. i meant legit instead of "not legit" Neutral

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Superman0X

GameMaster: USA
Superman0X
Joined
11 Jun 2007
Posts
12163
Location
San Jose United States
PostedDec 29, 2012 8:00 am
xybolt wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.  


you have to learn that there are people/government with other way of thinking.

I said firstly that what AGE does is legit in CA, but if their business seat is in belgium, they won't be able to do that or they get a fine.

Our government is thinking by that way, what i have written in my previous post. Even if you say that there is a key difference between gambling and a game of chance, it won't happen here. You - there =/= me - here

edited a /fail  


Games of chance are not illegal anywhere. If they were, then almost all games would be illegal. Flipping a coin (and guessing the result) is a game of chance. Betting on that coin flip is gambling.

This is really a discussion best reserved for lawyers, as it is about legal definitions, not about what people THINK things mean. Just ask a lawyer, they should be able to answer in about 30 seconds.

great_orion

Rank 1
great_orion
Joined
29 Jan 2011
Posts
382
Location
Steel City India
PostedDec 29, 2012 8:17 am

2 cents....

how about working on something creating and more towards proper solutions to problems rather then mindlessly discussions.....
instead of discussing about how to make it good game-play discussion about law suits and other liability issues is literally stupid....

to be honest......

policy with a fair rate of 50$ for EOM/tiers will attract some more ppls then 300$ schemes.Auto balances will surely occurs when resources are distributed irrationally.

simple solution is:
make 300$ equivalent values stuff into 50$ to have more ppls buying them......
there must be in-game stuffs like weapon Armour de-buffs lapises which must be only via farming.....
so a farmer can trade AP items....


adding combination system to game is urgent need of time....

<br>

Superman0X

GameMaster: USA
Superman0X
Joined
11 Jun 2007
Posts
12163
Location
San Jose United States
PostedDec 29, 2012 8:20 am
DaPacemDomine wrote:
Superman0X wrote:
xybolt wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:
Games of Chances are not considered within the definition of Gambling. There is a key difference.  


you have to learn that there are people/government with other way of thinking.

I said firstly that what AGE does is legit in CA, but if their business seat is in belgium, they won't be able to do that or they get a fine.

Our government is thinking by that way, what i have written in my previous post. Even if you say that there is a key difference between gambling and a game of chance, it won't happen here. You - there =/= me - here

edited a /fail  


Games of chance are not illegal (if you don´t have a license) anywhere. If they were, then almost all games would be illegal. Flipping a coin (and guessing the result) is a game of chance. Betting on that coin flip is gambling.

This is really a discussion best reserved for lawyers, as it is about legal definitions, not about what people THINK things mean. Just ask a lawyer, they should be able to answer in about 30 seconds.  


In Deutschland führt § 3 Abs. 1 des Glücksspielstaatsvertrages (GlüStV) aus:

Ein Glücksspiel liegt vor, wenn im Rahmen eines Spiels für den Erwerb einer Gewinnchance ein Entgelt verlangt wird und die Entscheidung über den Gewinn ganz oder überwiegend vom Zufall abhängt. Die Entscheidung über den Gewinn hängt in jedem Fall vom Zufall ab, wenn dafür der ungewisse Eintritt oder Ausgang zukünftiger Ereignisse maßgeblich ist. Auch Wetten gegen Entgelt auf den Eintritt oder Ausgang eines zukünftigen Ereignisses sind Glücksspiele.

http://de.shaiya.aeriagames.com/itemmall/loot-wheel

At last some to think about.  


Correct, according to the text you just quoted, the loot wheel is not gambling, as it doesn't meet the criteria. Dont trust me, ask a lawyer, they will tell you the same thing, as it is a basic issue. Laws are very precise. People often think that they know that they mean, but only Lawyers truly do.

P.S. Shaiya (and almost all MMORPG's) are games of chance. Anything with randomized loot, or gain of any sort is a game of chance.

shane247

Rank 1
shane247
Joined
20 May 2010
Posts
336
Location
Beccles United Kingdom
PostedDec 29, 2012 8:36 am
I think alot of peoples rage is because they are forced to gamble with mystery boxes when all they want is the item in the item mall on an individual basis so they can just buy what they want.

Mystery boxes are a joke if i want a rec rune i will buy a rec rune or KO noss or a low level linking hammer i DONT want to have to gamble my hard earned AP on getting one of those CRAPPY prizes if i want a lvl 75+ gear of my choice off the item mall.

Please re-organise your item mall, sell things individually and get rid of all those useless over priced, crappy, con artist, ripp off, poor chance at getting what you want mystery boxes !!!

Signature deleted due to shaiya sucking so bad

Spooky999

Rank 2
Spooky999
Joined
02 Aug 2012
Posts
616
Location
Newark United Kingdom
PostedDec 29, 2012 10:49 am
cookio wrote:
Spooky999 wrote:
bytorbusch wrote:
Better watch out the Germans are eyeing up the FR Shaiya  


Its ok they have to go through Shaiya Poland first  


Why should they. They got Shaiya Deutsch. And that got a real nice Item Mall too.

http://de.shaiya.aeriagames.com/  


It was a second world war joke

Darkyakuza

Rank 0
Darkyakuza
Joined
17 Apr 2008
Posts
10
Location
Amsterdam Netherlands
PostedDec 29, 2012 2:30 pm
Hello all,

Since the topic is about the FR server, i might provide you with my (too) long French experience.
I began shaiya FR at EP 2.
We just reached EP 6, with lvl cap at 80.

Imo, if you release EPs, it's to improve the game mechanics/balances/challenges.
so, what are the results on the FR servers after all these new EPs :

- Our item mall seems interesting in proposing lots of items. IG, it creates a huge gap between Cs and non Cs. It is fairly impossible to compete in PvP 80 if you don't spend A LOT of money/AP. You were right to reject the 'gravure 'system. A recreation rune + 1 gravure = 80/100M, knowing that you need in average 100 of them for one piece of your set. Just calculate Smile
- We don't have our word to say regarding the item mall items like it seems to be the case for you. Items are popping up in the mall without the FR community to be aware of anything.
- People are leaving : 2d server ( Pandorium) created for EP 4 has been closed and fusionned with Proelium, leaving the game with one server only ( normal status during busy hours ... )
- The lvl 80 PvP is dying, due to the 'let's sell my house to have a full top 79 obsolete in 3 months'policy.
- Change of community : No challenges anymore, possibility to have evrything in 2 sec thanks to the item mall etc .. change the community. All the big old players left, letting teh FR server with a really young/impolite/unrespectful community.

As you might see, the grass is not always greener in the neighbours garden Smile

Cheers
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