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Picchuu

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Picchuu
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PostedDec 24, 2012 6:40 pm
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.
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minuzaki

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08 Mar 2010
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Hell. Denmark
PostedDec 24, 2012 7:52 pm
Picchuu wrote:
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.  
OMG Yay! Someone else using Aeriapot as a name. (Is it sad that thats the first thing that caught my eye?) But on a serious note, I understand that our versions aren't the center of anything, but at the same time I'd rather work on something old then try to pitch off something new. While new games may have more appeal, veteran players take up a very large portion of Aeria. And I know for a fact that while some of them welcome new games, some of their minds only appeal to certain games. Ex: I came here for Grand Fantasia CB and that only. The only other game that looks even remotely interesting to me is LO. See what I'm trying to pull? Sure, their are new presents under the tree, but we can't forget the old classic toys in the toybox.

has moved to aeriagames.com/user/Ayvii

Picchuu

Rank 3
Picchuu
Joined
04 Apr 2011
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United States
PostedDec 24, 2012 8:29 pm
minuzaki wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.  
OMG Yay! Someone else using Aeriapot as a name. (Is it sad that thats the first thing that caught my eye?) But on a serious note, I understand that our versions aren't the center of anything, but at the same time I'd rather work on something old then try to pitch off something new. While new games may have more appeal, veteran players take up a very large portion of Aeria. And I know for a fact that while some of them welcome new games, some of their minds only appeal to certain games. Ex: I came here for Grand Fantasia CB and that only. The only other game that looks even remotely interesting to me is LO. See what I'm trying to pull? Sure, their are new presents under the tree, but we can't forget the old classic toys in the toybox.  


And I'm not saying that they shouldn't work on improving their old titles. I guess it's just that, I've seen games where the developers basically implemented anything that was suggested that got even a little bit of attention from other players, and those games turned to crap pretty quickly, and what's left of the community is continually fighting over what they want the devs to implement. Which is why I think that games like Last Chaos, Grand Fantasia, and Shaiya should stay with their respective developers, but have Aeriapot take GOOD suggestions, make a strong case for them, and hope they get implemented, instead of just buying up the development rights and listening to absolutely whatever was thrown at them.

I make no Rupaulogies.

faely

Rank 4
faely
Joined
13 Oct 2008
Posts
2187
Location
oregon United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 2:43 pm
Picchuu wrote:
minuzaki wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.  
OMG Yay! Someone else using Aeriapot as a name. (Is it sad that thats the first thing that caught my eye?) But on a serious note, I understand that our versions aren't the center of anything, but at the same time I'd rather work on something old then try to pitch off something new. While new games may have more appeal, veteran players take up a very large portion of Aeria. And I know for a fact that while some of them welcome new games, some of their minds only appeal to certain games. Ex: I came here for Grand Fantasia CB and that only. The only other game that looks even remotely interesting to me is LO. See what I'm trying to pull? Sure, their are new presents under the tree, but we can't forget the old classic toys in the toybox.  


And I'm not saying that they shouldn't work on improving their old titles. I guess it's just that, I've seen games where the developers basically implemented anything that was suggested that got even a little bit of attention from other players, and those games turned to crap pretty quickly, and what's left of the community is continually fighting over what they want the devs to implement. Which is why I think that games like Last Chaos, Grand Fantasia, and Shaiya should stay with their respective developers, but have Aeriapot take GOOD suggestions, make a strong case for them, and hope they get implemented, instead of just buying up the development rights and listening to absolutely whatever was thrown at them.  


This doesn't work with Barunson. They only put in what they want, take out what they want, fix what they want, or don't fix anything at all. They don't take player suggestions or GM suggestions. An old game doesn't mean a lost game and anyone that's been around LC at all in the last couple years will tell you its obvious that Barunson could give a hoot whether or not the game survives anymore. EVERY SINGLE PATCH has something wrong with it, and its forced to be put in. We lost a great PM due to Barunson complaining that he fought them too much to put in actual working content without breaking something else in the process. LC is and always will be strictly in the hands of the developers and while there are other versions, each one is patched and developed differently so I still support purchasing the rights to develop OUR version and fix it. LC was the foundation for Aeria. It's still got a lot of potential and a large number of players would return and spend even more if it had the developer support it needs.

There are other non-Aeria games out there that are older and still running, and running well. Game age means nothing. Support means everything. I honestly don't know why long-term players/games are consistently neglected industry-wide and the push is always always for new players/spenders/games. If players are willing to spend the money playing the old games they deserve equal support.

Giovanna_X

GameSage: DK Online
Giovanna_X
Joined
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Posts
3609
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Carpe Noctem! United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 3:10 pm
faely wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
minuzaki wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.  
OMG Yay! Someone else using Aeriapot as a name. (Is it sad that thats the first thing that caught my eye?) But on a serious note, I understand that our versions aren't the center of anything, but at the same time I'd rather work on something old then try to pitch off something new. While new games may have more appeal, veteran players take up a very large portion of Aeria. And I know for a fact that while some of them welcome new games, some of their minds only appeal to certain games. Ex: I came here for Grand Fantasia CB and that only. The only other game that looks even remotely interesting to me is LO. See what I'm trying to pull? Sure, their are new presents under the tree, but we can't forget the old classic toys in the toybox.  


And I'm not saying that they shouldn't work on improving their old titles. I guess it's just that, I've seen games where the developers basically implemented anything that was suggested that got even a little bit of attention from other players, and those games turned to crap pretty quickly, and what's left of the community is continually fighting over what they want the devs to implement. Which is why I think that games like Last Chaos, Grand Fantasia, and Shaiya should stay with their respective developers, but have Aeriapot take GOOD suggestions, make a strong case for them, and hope they get implemented, instead of just buying up the development rights and listening to absolutely whatever was thrown at them.  


This doesn't work with Barunson. They only put in what they want, take out what they want, fix what they want, or don't fix anything at all. They don't take player suggestions or GM suggestions. An old game doesn't mean a lost game and anyone that's been around LC at all in the last couple years will tell you its obvious that Barunson could give a hoot whether or not the game survives anymore. EVERY SINGLE PATCH has something wrong with it, and its forced to be put in. We lost a great PM due to Barunson complaining that he fought them too much to put in actual working content without breaking something else in the process. LC is and always will be strictly in the hands of the developers and while there are other versions, each one is patched and developed differently so I still support purchasing the rights to develop OUR version and fix it. LC was the foundation for Aeria. It's still got a lot of potential and a large number of players would return and spend even more if it had the developer support it needs.

There are other non-Aeria games out there that are older and still running, and running well. Game age means nothing. Support means everything. I honestly don't know why long-term players/games are consistently neglected industry-wide and the push is always always for new players/spenders/games. If players are willing to spend the money playing the old games they deserve equal support.
 


+1000

Picchuu

Rank 3
Picchuu
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PostedDec 25, 2012 9:16 pm
faely wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
minuzaki wrote:
Picchuu wrote:
Honestly, I think Barunson (Last Chaos) and X-Legend(Grand Fantasia) have made far too much money from those titles, respectively, to ever really want to give them up, no matter how big that payment from Aeriapot would be. And also, Aeria would have to deal with all the other publishers for those two games (or one, whatever) from then on, which is 6 for GF (not counting the fact that aeria publishes 6 other versions), and at least 1 other for LC (all I could find atm was a Spanish server, but I'm assuming there's more than that one). Our version isn't the center of everything, and I'd rather see them get to publish new games than try to fix up old games (almost 7/5 years, respectively).

Again, our version isn't the center of everything.  
OMG Yay! Someone else using Aeriapot as a name. (Is it sad that thats the first thing that caught my eye?) But on a serious note, I understand that our versions aren't the center of anything, but at the same time I'd rather work on something old then try to pitch off something new. While new games may have more appeal, veteran players take up a very large portion of Aeria. And I know for a fact that while some of them welcome new games, some of their minds only appeal to certain games. Ex: I came here for Grand Fantasia CB and that only. The only other game that looks even remotely interesting to me is LO. See what I'm trying to pull? Sure, their are new presents under the tree, but we can't forget the old classic toys in the toybox.  


And I'm not saying that they shouldn't work on improving their old titles. I guess it's just that, I've seen games where the developers basically implemented anything that was suggested that got even a little bit of attention from other players, and those games turned to crap pretty quickly, and what's left of the community is continually fighting over what they want the devs to implement. Which is why I think that games like Last Chaos, Grand Fantasia, and Shaiya should stay with their respective developers, but have Aeriapot take GOOD suggestions, make a strong case for them, and hope they get implemented, instead of just buying up the development rights and listening to absolutely whatever was thrown at them.  


This doesn't work with Barunson. They only put in what they want, take out what they want, fix what they want, or don't fix anything at all. They don't take player suggestions or GM suggestions. An old game doesn't mean a lost game and anyone that's been around LC at all in the last couple years will tell you its obvious that Barunson could give a hoot whether or not the game survives anymore. EVERY SINGLE PATCH has something wrong with it, and its forced to be put in. We lost a great PM due to Barunson complaining that he fought them too much to put in actual working content without breaking something else in the process. LC is and always will be strictly in the hands of the developers and while there are other versions, each one is patched and developed differently so I still support purchasing the rights to develop OUR version and fix it. LC was the foundation for Aeria. It's still got a lot of potential and a large number of players would return and spend even more if it had the developer support it needs.

There are other non-Aeria games out there that are older and still running, and running well. Game age means nothing. Support means everything. I honestly don't know why long-term players/games are consistently neglected industry-wide and the push is always always for new players/spenders/games. If players are willing to spend the money playing the old games they deserve equal support.
 


That makes Barunson sound like a very dangerous developer and I hope Aeria never takes up one of their games ever again. But I still don't think that means that they should just try to buy the dev rights to LC up, since Barunson might just pull the plug completely.

I really don't think that Aeria did this merge with Gamepot so it could buy all of the games it services up.

I make no Rupaulogies.

Superman0X

GameMaster: USA
Superman0X
Joined
11 Jun 2007
Posts
12163
Location
San Jose United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 9:51 pm
The only real way to acquire the rights to a game is to acquire the company that makes it. This is not something that is likely to happen (as they are bigger than us). A merger of some sort (like with GamePot) is something that could happen, but again, not likely.

Bottom line is this. We license the games from the developer. We provide the updates that they provide. None of this is going to change anytime soon.

What has changed is that we now get a little more insight into the development side of the business.

faely

Rank 4
faely
Joined
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Location
oregon United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 10:52 pm
Superman0X wrote:
The only real way to acquire the rights to a game is to acquire the company that makes it. This is not something that is likely to happen (as they are bigger than us). A merger of some sort (like with GamePot) is something that could happen, but again, not likely.

Bottom line is this. We license the games from the developer. We provide the updates that they provide. None of this is going to change anytime soon.

What has changed is that we now get a little more insight into the development side of the business.  


Thank you for explaining the "rights" game. I figured it was a pipe dream :/ It is unfortunate that LC is developed by a company that cares little about its performance and players.

Giovanna_X

GameSage: DK Online
Giovanna_X
Joined
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Carpe Noctem! United States
PostedDec 26, 2012 3:32 am
Superman0X wrote:
The only real way to acquire the rights to a game is to acquire the company that makes it. This is not something that is likely to happen (as they are bigger than us). A merger of some sort (like with GamePot) is something that could happen, but again, not likely.

Bottom line is this. We license the games from the developer. We provide the updates that they provide. None of this is going to change anytime soon.

What has changed is that we now get a little more insight into the development side of the business.  


Precedents with other types of intellectual property are far from unknown (song rights and the like, for example) -- and even with game franchises (if I could mention SE's acquisition of the DS franchise, including all of the previously-published games in that franchise, from GPG ... which didn't turn out so well, but that's another story for another time and place, and is SE's fault for turning the most recent "sequel" into something wholly alien to the rest of the games in the franchise). While the parenthetical bit there concerns one Dev company buying the property from another Dev company, there is nothing, so far as I am aware, that would prevent Aeria from buying LC outright from BarunsOn. And frankly, this is sorely needed, because BarunsOn either can't or won't fix the game, a game with so many issues, but yet still so much potential if only it could be rescued from their hands. LC could be so much more than it is, and not require a new engine nor even a graphic facelift (sure, the graphics may not be quite the eye candy some more recent games have been, but they're also not horrifically primitive, and, all in all, are actually rather aesthetically pleasing -- for the most part, but let's not talk about the Sasquatches now), its life (and customer retention) could be extended for, conceivably, at least another 10 years. That is dependent to some extent on how many times MS rebuilds Windows from the ground up, and how much they change in the process, over that decade, and how much has to be done to adapt the to their mutations and permutations while still allowing for compatibility with past versions of the OS, but the point remains true.

Loyalty to a beloved game, even one as badly in need of work as LC (and let's not pull the punches here, it is badly in need of work, although it is still certainly more than merely playable), goes a long way among more mature gamers, and the market needs to come to terms with this verity, as well as the probability that at least some younger gamers will have nostalgic feelings for their first MMO and so on and may not move on to newer games and abandon previous games simply for novelty's sake. Indeed, novelty appeals only to some; there are still devoted aficionados of old arcade games and the original console games who are willing to shell out large sums of cash in order to buy those old arcade games and keep their hardware (and the hardware of old consoles) functional. NBC is a bad model to emulate. Just look at how much profit they lost by cancelling the original Star Trek, and how that franchise is still alive and well, in multiple media. Playing to current fads is all well and good (although somewhat short-sighted), but if that is done while simultaneously losing interest in proven markets, it alienates those who would remain loyal to the tried and true.

Picchuu

Rank 3
Picchuu
Joined
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Posts
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Location
United States
PostedDec 26, 2012 6:18 am
Giovanna_X wrote:
Superman0X wrote:
The only real way to acquire the rights to a game is to acquire the company that makes it. This is not something that is likely to happen (as they are bigger than us). A merger of some sort (like with GamePot) is something that could happen, but again, not likely.

Bottom line is this. We license the games from the developer. We provide the updates that they provide. None of this is going to change anytime soon.

What has changed is that we now get a little more insight into the development side of the business.  


Precedents with other types of intellectual property are far from unknown (song rights and the like, for example) -- and even with game franchises (if I could mention SE's acquisition of the DS franchise, including all of the previously-published games in that franchise, from GPG ... which didn't turn out so well, but that's another story for another time and place, and is SE's fault for turning the most recent "sequel" into something wholly alien to the rest of the games in the franchise). While the parenthetical bit there concerns one Dev company buying the property from another Dev company, there is nothing, so far as I am aware, that would prevent Aeria from buying LC outright from BarunsOn. And frankly, this is sorely needed, because BarunsOn either can't or won't fix the game, a game with so many issues, but yet still so much potential if only it could be rescued from their hands. LC could be so much more than it is, and not require a new engine nor even a graphic facelift (sure, the graphics may not be quite the eye candy some more recent games have been, but they're also not horrifically primitive, and, all in all, are actually rather aesthetically pleasing -- for the most part, but let's not talk about the Sasquatches now), its life (and customer retention) could be extended for, conceivably, at least another 10 years. That is dependent to some extent on how many times MS rebuilds Windows from the ground up, and how much they change in the process, over that decade, and how much has to be done to adapt the to their mutations and permutations while still allowing for compatibility with past versions of the OS, but the point remains true.

Loyalty to a beloved game, even one as badly in need of work as LC (and let's not pull the punches here, it is badly in need of work, although it is still certainly more than merely playable), goes a long way among more mature gamers, and the market needs to come to terms with this verity, as well as the probability that at least some younger gamers will have nostalgic feelings for their first MMO and so on and may not move on to newer games and abandon previous games simply for novelty's sake. Indeed, novelty appeals only to some; there are still devoted aficionados of old arcade games and the original console games who are willing to shell out large sums of cash in order to buy those old arcade games and keep their hardware (and the hardware of old consoles) functional. NBC is a bad model to emulate. Just look at how much profit they lost by cancelling the original Star Trek, and how that franchise is still alive and well, in multiple media. Playing to current fads is all well and good (although somewhat short-sighted), but if that is done while simultaneously losing interest in proven markets, it alienates those who would remain loyal to the tried and true.  


Yes, they could "hypothetically" buy the game development rights and continue on, since the Korean version has been closed for a few months IIRC. But I'm going to repeat what I've said earlier, that I don't think Aeria and Gamepot did the merger to buy up the development rights to the games they service. And as much as I hate to say it, games do have a lifetime, which includes decline and death unfortunately, which you even mentioned yourself. All this would be doing is delaying the unfortunate inevitable. I do love to see that people have this much passion for something like this, though.
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