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synster14

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synster14
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PostedDec 25, 2012 6:22 pm
blackdragon214 wrote:
hmm the amount of money i spend on online game is lower then 0 as i received cash items from events and such lol  



That's the way to do it.
I buy AP items from other players with in-game gold..

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Arsalem

Rank 1
Arsalem
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397
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PostedDec 25, 2012 6:23 pm
yah.... although i did splurge 20$ on kitsu saga once...

Courtesy of Emralyn, Lalaheat & filipvarga <br> GL- LucidDream

blackdragon214

Rank 1
blackdragon214
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11 Jul 2012
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384
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Romania
PostedDec 25, 2012 6:27 pm
well i do think i compensate with spending time on the community and helping people so meh

Try looking into that place where you dare not look! You will find me there, staring out at you!

Arsalem

Rank 1
Arsalem
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Fort Collins United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 6:33 pm
lol but that's your new job mister fm. lol

Courtesy of Emralyn, Lalaheat & filipvarga <br> GL- LucidDream

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedDec 25, 2012 10:55 pm
sorbek wrote:
Bryan.Fury wrote:


While runes add few stats (that are not even +1% on the basic stats) the enchants does multiply the base damage of weapons or base defence of armors.  


What?

red brawn rune II gives +8 atk vs +10 from one level of enchant.

Green vitalis II gives +130 hp which for a sorceress is over 1/10 of their base hp
yellow vitalis II gives +100 just under 1/10 of a sorceress hp

Yellow guardian rune (the defense rune) II gives +40 def you would need +10 on an armor to get that much def and you still probably wouldn't get to 40 the diminishing returns on armor are steep.

You are really underestimating the contribution of runes to a characters stats.  


The amount runes affect damage is MUCH lower than enchants.

Why? There are only 5 feasible spots to put every rune. The other slots tend to have dwarfed stats, or better runes to link. For example, on a melee toon linked +8 Attack, that's +40 total from runes. Enchanted a Heroic Sword to [10], adds around 200 attack.

Even if you runed every single slot on a melee with attack damage, it would only add add +95 up to Blue. Up to green would add +115.

It's no way near the advantage the enchant gives.

Why are you bringing up HP runes btw? There's no comparison with them on enchants. I also would like to point out, current heal rates don't make having high HP have much sense. When you have 4000 hp but can only heal 700-1000, you will still die like a paper bag. There's a delicate balance there.

Defense from runes doesn't do much for your toon. Damage is minimized at 8 damage on PVE, and in PVP, even having 1500 defense only negates around 180 damage off a melee attacker.

I agree that Runes add better variety and are neccessary, but when it comes down to dealing damage, Enchants are more important.

@ Synster: you're undershooting the cost. Multiply it by 10.

synster14

Rank 3
synster14
Joined
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PostedDec 25, 2012 11:28 pm
Rekikyo wrote:

@ Synster: you're undershooting the cost. Multiply it by 10.  



It won't take anywhere near $1,000 to get a +15 weapon.
I got to +10 with under $10...


And just so you know...
Enchants give +10 attack, and +40 magic attack.
Even on heroic weapons at enchant level 10 you only get +100 attack.
The only difference is the base damage.


Also, as far as runes are concerned, I believe runes are going to be at LEAST 50% of our characters strength.
We have not seen higher quality runes, and I believe they will follow the same quality pattern as equipment. Meaning, up to legendary quality runes.
And I can see them easily adding 20 attack for a single rune.

And, if you take into account that you get 1 stat point per level. Then runes are worth several levels each...


Rekikyo wrote:

Why are you bringing up HP runes btw? There's no comparison with them on enchants.
 



Both Bryan.Fury, and Sorbek were speaking of stats in general. Bryan.Fury saying that runes give hardly any bonus to your stats and Sorbek arguing that they add a lot.
Bryan.Fury saying the runes don't even give +1% to basic stats.
And Sorbek arguing with the fact that HP runes give almost 11% of a Sorcs total HP with 1 rune....

Rekikyo wrote:

The amount runes affect damage is MUCH lower than enchants.
 

Let's just take up to blue runes as an example...You said +95...
That's the same as enchanting your weapon an EXTRA +9.5 times on top of w/e it already is...

The bottom line is that both runes and enchants play a major role in your character build and strength.

sorbek

Elite Founder: Scarlet Blade
sorbek
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tours France
PostedDec 26, 2012 4:52 am
Rekikyo wrote:
sorbek wrote:
Bryan.Fury wrote:


While runes add few stats (that are not even +1% on the basic stats) the enchants does multiply the base damage of weapons or base defence of armors.  


What?

red brawn rune II gives +8 atk vs +10 from one level of enchant.

Green vitalis II gives +130 hp which for a sorceress is over 1/10 of their base hp
yellow vitalis II gives +100 just under 1/10 of a sorceress hp

Yellow guardian rune (the defense rune) II gives +40 def you would need +10 on an armor to get that much def and you still probably wouldn't get to 40 the diminishing returns on armor are steep.

You are really underestimating the contribution of runes to a characters stats.  


The amount runes affect damage is MUCH lower than enchants.

Why? There are only 5 feasible spots to put every rune. The other slots tend to have dwarfed stats, or better runes to link. For example, on a melee toon linked +8 Attack, that's +40 total from runes. Enchanted a Heroic Sword to [10], adds around 200 attack.

Even if you runed every single slot on a melee with attack damage, it would only add add +95 up to Blue. Up to green would add +115.

It's no way near the advantage the enchant gives.

Why are you bringing up HP runes btw? There's no comparison with them on enchants. I also would like to point out, current heal rates don't make having high HP have much sense. When you have 4000 hp but can only heal 700-1000, you will still die like a paper bag. There's a delicate balance there.

Defense from runes doesn't do much for your toon. Damage is minimized at 8 damage on PVE, and in PVP, even having 1500 defense only negates around 180 damage off a melee attacker.

I agree that Runes add better variety and are neccessary, but when it comes down to dealing damage, Enchants are more important.

@ Synster: you're undershooting the cost. Multiply it by 10.  



Really not hard to see that i was merely pointing out that when he said ("that are not even +1% on the basic stats)" that runes do in fact add a lot more then 1%

Had to re read my post for the part where i said that runes were Superior to enchants for damage. After seeing that i didnt i dont know where you could get that i did. Nor did i say that Defense was necessarily a good thing to stat but that vs enchants a rune does provide more defense just for comparison.

This entire discussion/quote pyramid Began from runes failing they all break and how ap items give advantage over non ap buyer (i was shocked to find out that cash shop items gave advantages) i should probably point out that was sarcasm.

Finally i am confused by the part when you said having high hp was in some way negligible because heals are around 700-1000. If you have 4000 hp you can get hit 2x as much as someone with 2000 hp if you do not have the luxury of spam heals high hp gives you a little breathing room as opposed to i just got hit three times better run away since i only have 2.5k hp lol.

Etain -Reborn- Sorbet 70 UM Mage

filipvarga

GameSage: DK Online
filipvarga
Joined
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2686
Location
Porec Croatia
PostedDec 26, 2012 5:04 am
sorbek wrote:
@ filipvarga You have the possibility to lose enchant levels if you fail to enhance an item. After +5 the chance you will lose an enchant level increases at +7 onward i believe you have the possibility to lose 2 enchant levels.  

Thats sounds almost exact as a game I have played (not naming it so special people wont think Im advertising). Im actually still playing it since Im waiting for the DK Open Beta.
In the game, you had different types of elixirs for different types of equipment, eg. weapon elixir for weapon enhancing. Equipment that you dropped could sometimes have blue stats on it (that you can also manually add by using magic stones), and some of the blue stats that are important for enhancing are: immortal, lucky and steady.
Immortal prevents the Item of being destroyed by an enhancing failure after 5. Lucky increases the luck of an succesful enhancement and steady prevents the item from losing ALL its enhancement level upon failure. Lucky and Steady Stones were dropping in game, but Immortal Stones were in the Item Mall only and a great source of income. If you didnt want to spend money, you had to be lucky to get an good piece of equipment with a high-stacked immortality on it.

Since I didnt play the Closed Beta, could be that DK is like or might be similar to this system.

Burned - [Website][Forum Topic]

Rekikyo

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PostedDec 26, 2012 9:01 am
synster14 wrote:


It won't take anywhere near $1,000 to get a +15 weapon.
I got to +10 with under $10...

 
And where are you getting that number (We didn't have an item mall in CB). Power stones cost 100 AP just for level 4 (we were using 6). If we're lucky and succeed every enchant toward 10, it costs roughly 500 AP with Level 6's (I'm guessing with 32% you will fail alot more, probably take somewhere around 8 tries for the 5 top level). But, at 10, you require Protection scrolls, and power stones, and the chance for success base will be like 1%. That's 499 +100+ AP per try, with a 33% chance of success. 599 AP *3 per level roughly = 8985 AP conservatively. So you are in the ballpark with $100, but some people will be looking at more like $200.

 

And just so you know...
Enchants give +10 attack, and +40 magic attack.
Even on heroic weapons at enchant level 10 you only get +100 attack.
The only difference is the base damage.  


Just goes to show that melee is built to do more damage than casters (Magic attack only does around 1 damage per 5, whereas melee does 1 per 4)

The flat enchant rate principal sucks imo, as it means the level/quality of the weapon will decide all its potency.

 

Also, as far as runes are concerned, I believe runes are going to be at LEAST 50% of our characters strength.
We have not seen higher quality runes, and I believe they will follow the same quality pattern as equipment. Meaning, up to legendary quality runes.
And I can see them easily adding 20 attack for a single rune.

And, if you take into account that you get 1 stat point per level. Then runes are worth several levels each...  


I doubt we'll be looking at Legendary Quality any time soon. The game will probably be 35/40 for awhile, and those armors cap at level 3. My guess is that level 3's will be AP :p.

Given that enchant improvement is linear, I'm guessing that runes will be too.
In other words, level 3 STR 6 Str, level 3 Attack 10 Attack, Level 3 Magic attack 50 Attack.

When you total 5 pieces of armor, that's roughly a 20% increase in stats over II's. (+95 Attack will become +113).


 

Both Bryan.Fury, and Sorbek were speaking of stats in general. Bryan.Fury saying that runes give hardly any bonus to your stats and Sorbek arguing that they add a lot.
Bryan.Fury saying the runes don't even give +1% to basic stats.
And Sorbek arguing with the fact that HP runes give almost 11% of a Sorcs total HP with 1 rune....
 


Linking the HP also eliminates most Defensive linking in exchange. you're trading survivability for the ability to take more initial damage. In Pvp, the defensive build will obliterate the HP build with our current heals. 5 Con adds 100 hp and 7 HP recovery btw ....

 

Let's just take up to blue runes as an example...You said +95...
That's the same as enchanting your weapon an EXTRA +9.5 times on top of w/e it already is...

The bottom line is that both runes and enchants play a major role in your character build and strength.  


That +95 also takes 15 times as much AP to accomplish as the weapon enchant. protection runes, Lucky runes, per slot beyond red, 5 pieces. In other words your average player won't be fully runed, or even choose the BEST runes for their build, because it's hard to stockpile the right runes, and get them to succeed. There's no real science like that behind enchanting though.

When all is said and done, I suspect for most players, Attack will be 30% Runes, 10% weapon Base, and 60% Enchant, and Defense will be 60% Armor, 30 % runes, and 10% enchants.

synster14

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synster14
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PostedDec 26, 2012 9:42 am
Rekikyo wrote:
synster14 wrote:


It won't take anywhere near $1,000 to get a +15 weapon.
I got to +10 with under $10...

 
And where are you getting that number (We didn't have an item mall in CB). Power stones cost 100 AP just for level 4 (we were using 6). If we're lucky and succeed every enchant toward 10, it costs roughly 500 AP with Level 6's (I'm guessing with 32% you will fail alot more, probably take somewhere around 8 tries for the 5 top level). But, at 10, you require Protection scrolls, and power stones, and the chance for success base will be like 1%. That's 499 +100+ AP per try, with a 33% chance of success. 599 AP *3 per level roughly = 8985 AP conservatively. So you are in the ballpark with $100, but some people will be looking at more like $200.
 


So, why are you arguing with me then?

 
 

Also, as far as runes are concerned, I believe runes are going to be at LEAST 50% of our characters strength.
We have not seen higher quality runes, and I believe they will follow the same quality pattern as equipment. Meaning, up to legendary quality runes.
And I can see them easily adding 20 attack for a single rune.

And, if you take into account that you get 1 stat point per level. Then runes are worth several levels each...  



I doubt we'll be looking at Legendary Quality any time soon. The game will probably be 35/40 for awhile, and those armors cap at level 3. My guess is that level 3's will be AP :p.

Given that enchant improvement is linear, I'm guessing that runes will be too.
In other words, level 3 STR 6 Str, level 3 Attack 10 Attack, Level 3 Magic attack 50 Attack.

When you total 5 pieces of armor, that's roughly a 20% increase in stats over II's. (+95 Attack will become +113).  


I disagree.
Enchants don't change based on the quality of item. And runes aren't enchants.
If they follow the same pattern as items....
White > Green small increase.
Green > Blue small increase.
Blue > Gold slightly larger increase.
Gold > Orange big increase.
Orange > red slightly larger increase.

 
 

Both Bryan.Fury, and Sorbek were speaking of stats in general. Bryan.Fury saying that runes give hardly any bonus to your stats and Sorbek arguing that they add a lot.
Bryan.Fury saying the runes don't even give +1% to basic stats.
And Sorbek arguing with the fact that HP runes give almost 11% of a Sorcs total HP with 1 rune....
 


Linking the HP also eliminates most Defensive linking in exchange. you're trading survivability for the ability to take more initial damage. In Pvp, the defensive build will obliterate the HP build with our current heals. 5 Con adds 100 hp and 7 HP recovery btw ....  

You are still missing the point...
Also, that 5 con does different things for different classes...

Paladin: 30 hp
Warrior: 20 hp
Shadow: 18 hp
Sorceress: 15 hp

I'm also pretty sure it's only .5 HP recovery per point for all classes.
So, for a Sorc, 5 con = 75 hp and 2.5 HP regen.

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