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sjhotwings

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sjhotwings
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PostedNov 27, 2012 10:16 am   Last edited by sjhotwings on Nov 27, 2012 11:42 am. Edited 1 time in total
wait until warrior/paladin/sorc reach a high lvl with their +15 gears and say heal is OP. They'll stun,burn and hit you so hard even critical heal won't help you.
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ALynn2012

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PostedNov 27, 2012 11:39 am
Number 1 thung for me is the cast animation, all magic classes know wat im talking about. Maybe implement an aoe sleep skill on the support side to better their mob control. Id like to see sacrifice heal more mana for its current cooldown time or have a decreased cooldown time. And make DoTs % based since 50(being the norm from wat ive seen) isnt that useful. And make norms ranged for SM and sorc, we are to squishy to get up close.

anjalea1

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PostedNov 27, 2012 1:20 pm
Darkness - this drains your own mana so fast I consider it unusable. it either needs fixing or replacing with something useful.

If building SM as a DD (with provision for buffs/basic heal) then it seems to lack any decent pvp skills. Adding a few pvp orientated DD skills would help - or adjust current DD skills to make them more useful in pvp. By the time a SM gets stunned/slowed etc they would probably be dead.

If building as healer then 1 thing seems to be lacking, I would expect a purify skill to be available eg to remove poison, bleed etc from affected party members.
Additionaly a debuff skill to remove positve buffs from the enemy may be good Cool

Thoreac

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PostedNov 27, 2012 2:06 pm
Having just barely reached lvl 30, and not had a chance to work in many groups, there are some things I can't speak to. But all in all, from what I have experienced, I agree with Rekikyo's post 100%!

I'd like to toss in that Darkness really is useless in it's current form. I never moved it past 1st level because I see no chance that it will become useful (given the description in the tree).

Better distribution of gear & runes seems to be a problem that I have noticed. I've seen a LOT of combat-based Runes and a decent amount of magic based Runes, but not nearly the same amount as combat based ones. The differences between "melee oriented" gear and "caster oriented" gear are such that I generally choose the gear for the melee classes when I can. The bonus of wearing my class-specific gear is so minor as to be non-existent in many cases... the melee classes get equivalent (or better) dodge bonuses in many cases, and I would lose a huge amount in defensive bonuses.

As far as heals being over powered... in straight PvE I'd have to agree... but I didn't get to do ANY PvP (was hoping to hit lvl 30 first, which I barely made). So I reserve judgement because I know from other games that PvP is a whole different world. But with no instant-cast heals I don't have a problem with it... even though the heals may be a lot more powerful than needed, the cast times balance it out a little.

Since we're mentioning cast times, I'd like to mention something that's already been mentioned: Please work on the cast time + animation time delays that we have. If the cast time should be 1s, then the animation time shouldn't be added on top of that.

All that being said, I like the class a LOT and I will play it in OB as well. I hope to see a little balance as we go forward Smile

Thanks for a great game and a well run closed beta!

<br>Spoken as a man playing a (large breasted) cat-woman in a virtual world

Tauredhiel

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PostedNov 27, 2012 5:35 pm
Absolutely love the class, but it needs some sort of instant cast crowd control skill.

For example in Shaiya you have earth shock which is great for blocking a warrior a couple of seconds and giving you time to run.
Other games have a teleport skill....but whatever it is we need something to allow us to escape from a melee.

I'm not expecting any new skills to be developped though, the beta will just allow some tweeks to balance the classes.....so we need either more defence or more DPS (either higher damage or faster casting).
I would also really like to see the DOTs % based instead of fixed damage. Again to parallel Shaiya : Mages DOTs are useless because they are fixed and weak, archers DOTs are % based and awesome*guess what, nobody plays mages anymore because they are too slow and weak.

Rekikyo

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PostedNov 27, 2012 6:03 pm
The Dot issue; there is a fundamental flaw in what you are arguing.

Shaiya poisons are % of the target's HP, and in pvp highly pottable.

What this does PVE: For instance a 5% Degen lasting 5 ticks or 10 seconds,
= 25% loss of HP.
On a mob that has 1000 hp, that = 250 HP loss.
On a mob with 2000 hp, that = 500 HP loss.

Poison Cloud Currently ticks a total of 400 HP loss at a 80 per tick.

In other words, in pve for most mosts (up until Owl Bears), The 80 Fix damage offers an Absolute advantage of over 60% over a % style poison. In Temple of the Lost Gods, it offers a 20% disadvantage to the % style hit.

Furthermore: a % style tick is never going to kill any mob, unless cast multiple times. That turns a 1 second spam into a very bad thing.

P.S. Shaiya poison skills also do no initial damage. Poison skills here do.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In pvp, I could understand a little of the frustration with poison being fixed rate. Some people have over 2000-3000 hp. That minimizes the value of poison in pvp.

However, it's also part of the healing tree. Are you SUPPOSED to be able to kill a pvper in pvp when you stat healer? No .... you rely on someone else. Darkness skills excel at killing in pvp.

I can guarantee your orcs in Shaiya do not kill people.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm going to mention one more thing; something that is unique to DK's poison that I have never seen anywhere else:

Poison can Critical hit. And when it critical hits, it reflects your base magic attack damage, critted, not the 80. Sometimes my poisons crit for 700+.

glindenm

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PostedNov 27, 2012 8:11 pm

Hey :D

I feel shadowmages main heal should be cut back a little, but in return we could also have a overtime heal? Since our main heal or other heal that cost a bunch of mana has a CD I think an overtime heal would be helpful. Aslong as we cut down the heal on the direct heals Smile That's all I have for Shadowmages. It's nice that they can solo quest and not depend on others! Very Happy

burner3289

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PostedNov 27, 2012 9:59 pm

shadowmage suggestions

possibly you could make them have some melee based spells or attacks because i found that giving them a shield and a sword stacking strength and having the buffs and heals it made me unstopable so i have to suggestion either raise their reliance of attacking spells or make them more melee optionable because it makes you feel overpowered to be a spell caster and melee fight wrapped into one char

andrewbham

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PostedNov 27, 2012 10:02 pm
Its just dandy. but i feel all classes need to not be gender locked.

Giovanna_X

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PostedNov 28, 2012 12:09 am
Bryan.Fury wrote:
10) All the buffs that are with 20min timer should be changed to 30min. It's senseless have some at 20 and some at 30.  


Agreed.

Also, I keep hearing players say that the SM Heal is OP. I disagree, for reasons already stated by some others, as quoted below. Hotkey pressing also seems to not always register with the game, meaning that I may press the number for healing myself and the game doesn't register it; the result is too often death.

Morimiko wrote:
Overall love the class and the fact that we have a healer that can still solo quest.

Heals, slightly overpowered but kind of manditory with the mass agro style in the instances.  


Agreed.

Bryan.Fury wrote:
2) Animation is a common problem with the Sorcerer.

What i mean?
[That is what should happen]
Channeling + Animation
Cast + Cooldown

[That is what happen NOW]
Channeling
Cast + Animation
Cooldown

That is wrong. Point.

On the first example the situation is that:
Channeling is 1s long, Cast is 1s long = Skill is exactly how it's wrote: 2s casting (1+1)

On the second one, that is what NOW happen the situation is that:
Channeling is 1s, Animation is 1s long, Cast is 1s long = The skill is not 2s casting (1+1) but 3 seconds.  

and
Morimiko wrote:
Need to make the spell cast time the real time to use the spell and not cast plus animation and be pinned in place the whole time.  


Agreed.

Morimiko wrote:
Be nice to have a true mana regen spell like the sorc. Have to spend points evenly between Int and Wis to keep up in instances, let alone any for Con so you can pvp. This will only get more pronounced as we level up.

Insure the dots scale with gear, its our main damage and we will be gimped at end game if not and the rest of the classes do scale.

Put a longer cooldown on Pally heal so they can emergency heal but not both tank and heal party.  


Agreed.

Rekikyo wrote:
I don't believe heals are too strong. What is too strong is their correlation with INT. at level 3 of the skills. At level 1 of Heal or Group heal, even with 55 INT I only heal around 400-500. But when I have level 3, I can heal over 2000.

Given that a Paladin can heal 700 without even having Int, I think 2000 is fair. It's also our only salvation in a pvp fight. Melee can murder SM's because of attack speed, better single target skills, no cast times, and stuns. Also, if a SM is healing in pvp, that means they can't do anything else. For instance, when I am in a hot situation, My skill chain is > Poison Cloud >Heal >Dark Scourge > Heal > etc. Doing this chain only allows about 1 skill per 2 seconds vs 3 melee attacks.

If anything, I think the heals balance out the fact that Casters have alot less defense than melee classes, and about the SAME Dodge as melee classes. In other words, Melees don't need the heals that SM's do. For a SM to tank, they take serious damage.

That's my next point.

SM armor at level 30 has only 60-102 Defense per piece, and 80-272 Evasion.
Melee armor at level 30 has 80-232 Defense per piece, and 80-232 Evasion.

Pve, that means Melee can both tank and dodge mobs, making them near immortal. Casters Cannot. In extreme situations, a caster's HP looks like a yo-yo. Without the heals they have, they would die in every decent pull.  


Agreed. The way the mobs are bunched together and are protective and/or aggro means that a relatively small number of mobs gang up on the player, and 3-4 mobs on one SM is usually enough to result in death, even if those mobs are 5 levels lower than the SM -- while the SM is not, and should not be, a tank, this seems a bit extreme. I'm not sure if the supposed Evasion glitch fix contributes to this or whether leveling difficulty after reaching level 30 simply increases exponentially, but I have found that trying to level on appropriate-level mobs (25-31) after making 30 resulted in loss of XP so much that even quest XP didn't make up for it. Grouping with other players is good, but even that doesn't really resolve this issue; SM is simply too squishy, needs better Eva/Def. This is spoken to by Thoreac, as quoted below, but before I proceed to that, let me point out that each player has his or her own preferred playing style; while I don't think grouping with other players should be discouraged as it has been in some games (what does the MM in MMORPG stand for again?), I also think that it should be possible to solo a small group of mobs (3-4) unless all of the mobs in that group are "elite" or "bosses," even for an SM:

Thoreac wrote:
I'd like to toss in that Darkness really is useless in it's current form. I never moved it past 1st level because I see no chance that it will become useful (given the description in the tree).

Better distribution of gear & runes seems to be a problem that I have noticed. I've seen a LOT of combat-based Runes and a decent amount of magic based Runes, but not nearly the same amount as combat based ones. The differences between "melee oriented" gear and "caster oriented" gear are such that I generally choose the gear for the melee classes when I can. The bonus of wearing my class-specific gear is so minor as to be non-existent in many cases... the melee classes get equivalent (or better) dodge bonuses in many cases, and I would lose a huge amount in defensive bonuses.  


Thoreac also addresses the Darkness skill in the quote above, as some others have done, such as previously-quoted bits above and below:

anjalea1 wrote:
Darkness - this drains your own mana so fast I consider it unusable. it either needs fixing or replacing with something useful.

If building SM as a DD (with provision for buffs/basic heal) then it seems to lack any decent pvp skills. Adding a few pvp orientated DD skills would help - or adjust current DD skills to make them more useful in pvp. By the time a SM gets stunned/slowed etc they would probably be dead.

If building as healer then 1 thing seems to be lacking, I would expect a purify skill to be available eg to remove poison, bleed etc from affected party members.
Additionaly a debuff skill to remove positve buffs from the enemy may be good Cool  


Agreed.

Tauredhiel wrote:
Absolutely love the class, but it needs some sort of instant cast crowd control skill.

For example in Shaiya you have earth shock which is great for blocking a warrior a couple of seconds and giving you time to run.
Other games have a teleport skill....but whatever it is we need something to allow us to escape from a melee.  


I agree more or less with this, but I would express it in terms of kiting against melée opponents rather than escaping from melée. A class so squishy ought to be able to kite, if the class is so lacking in Eva and Def. Unfortunately, mob movement speed vs. SM movement speed only adds to the issue.

Somewhat related --
The Hyaen Patriarch stun debuff ought not to remove mount effects; this applies to all classes, and not just SM, but it's very annoying to have to stop and fight them over and over again, or remount over and over again, while just trying to ride through the area. They're usually easy enough to kill, but the annoyance involved in this should be eliminated.

One final note --
I love options for players. The so-called "gender locking" doesn't bother me in this case (except on the principle of "more options = good"), but I don't remember ever seeing any response to the question of whether or not a female toon will still be restricted from becoming King or Pope. If so, I object very strenuously.

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