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Taz

Aeria: Product Manager
Taz
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23 Dec 2006
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109
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PostedNov 26, 2012 1:12 pm

[Class Discussion] Shadowmage

Hail Dragon Knights!

Everyone has had a chance to dig in, get their hands dirty, and try out the classes in DK Online. We have received a tremendous amount of feedback and many suggestions. We are reading and compiling everything.

For this thread we want to focus specifically on the Shadowmage. How does the class feel to you if you have played it, or have played against it? How does it rank against other classes? What can be improved? What might need to be balanced better? Let us know here!

Please keep all feedback constructive and specific to the Shadowmage class. Easiest way to do this is to not respond to other people, post your feedback and leave what other people post alone. Flames will be removed, and any useful feedback within them will be lost--so please do not flame, your feedback is important.

 
Shadowmage Feedback

Skills:
-Casting Animation Locks/Delays
-Add Stun effect
-Add AoE skills
-Based on percentage of Magic attack
-Modify Heal
-Timer on Buff should be the same (30min)
-Mana Regen
-Modify Darkness
-Spell movement
-HP regen spell



 


XII
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synster14

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synster14
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933
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Pits of Despair United States
PostedNov 26, 2012 1:24 pm
Heals are too strong.



That's all I've got...

Bryan.Fury

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Bryan.Fury
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962
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TekkenForce Town Italy
PostedNov 26, 2012 1:51 pm
1) Shadomage NEED a Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin skill

[What is the situation now betwheen the 2 mages classes]
-Sorceress = Earth Bind = 10s; 15m range; 30s cooldown; 1s cast; (Stats at level 3)
-Shadowmage = Have not a Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin skill

[What i suggest]
-Sorceress = Earth Bind = 5s effect; 15m range; 15s cooldown; 0,5s cast; (Stats at level 3)
-Shadowmage = "Soul Burn" will now have Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin effect with THAT stats: 5s effect; 15m range; 15s cooldown; 0,5s cast; (Stats at level 3)

[Why that change]
-Sorceress = That is a RANGED character and do NOT need a too overpowered as it's now Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin skill.
-Shadowmage = it's the only character that have NOT a Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin skill, so it need too to be equal to the other character. I have to add also that the main debuffer is right THAT character and not the Sorceress, so, based on that, the Shadowmage need way MORE than the sorceress the Hold/Root/Shakle/Pin skill.

2) Animation is a common problem with the Sorcerer.

What i mean?
[That is what should happen]
Channeling + Animation
Cast + Cooldown

[That is what happen NOW]
Channeling
Cast + Animation
Cooldown

That is wrong. Point.

On the first example the situation is that:
Channeling is 1s long, Cast is 1s long = Skill is exactly how it's wrote: 2s casting (1+1)

On the second one, that is what NOW happen the situation is that:
Channeling is 1s, Animation is 1s long, Cast is 1s long = The skill is not 2s casting (1+1) but 3 seconds.

3) DoT damages MUST be scaled to the M.Atk of the character and not fixed rate. Or based into a % that increase level by level. Also DoT damages must be increased since Shadowmage is not a primary DD class. (This mean that the DoT's from Poison Arrow, Poison Cloud, Soul Burn and Night Terrors are included on the changes).

4) Heal should be reduced a bit as power.

5) Death's Calduron should be RANGED and not melee.

6) Darkness should be a SELF buff with the M.Atk increasal as % and not fixed rate (something like +25%, +50% and +75% for each level). Otherwise it MUST not drink that mana like now.

7) Sacrifice should be istant instead with a 1s casting.

8) Mephisto's Thorn sould be switched with the Banshee Scream skill.

9) Poison Cloud should be changed to RANGED and not melee.

10) All the buffs that are with 20min timer should be changed to 30min. It's senseless have some at 20 and some at 30.

11) Critical Heal should be changed to % based and not Fixed rate. Obviously the mana cost should be increased.

12) Mana drain should be 100% effective instead of 50%. Obviously the ammount of mana drained should be decreased.

BryanFury - Leader |Site|Forum|

Morimiko

Elite Founder: Scarlet Blade
Morimiko
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PostedNov 26, 2012 2:41 pm
Overall love the class and the fact that we have a healer that can still solo quest.

Heals, slightly overpowered but kind of manditory with the mass agro style in the instances. Also only way to stay alive in pvp since you have no insant cast spells and have to stand there and take it to cast anything.

Need to be able to move while casting for pvp.
Need to make the spell cast time the real time to use the spell and not cast plus animation and be pinned in place the whole time.

Be nice to have a true mana regen spell like the sorc. Have to spend points evenly between Int and Wis to keep up in instances, let alone any for Con so you can pvp. This will only get more pronounced as we level up.

Insure the dots scale with gear, its our main damage and we will be gimped at end game if not and the rest of the classes do scale.

Put a longer cooldown on Pally heal so they can emergency heal but not both tank and heal party.

Love the class, gives me the feel of the old EQ 1 druids, if they only fix the casting.

Sellvehtarm

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11 Nov 2012
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8
Location
Russia
PostedNov 26, 2012 3:40 pm
I agreed with Bryan almost completely, but a few moments. There are some thoughts and my vision of SM:
SM must have a choice to be not only a dedicated healer and buffer. As said above, SM must have a chance to be a main debuffer and crowd controller, while Sorcs are dedicated DD-ers. Why there is no group (AoE) attacks which cause sleep/stun/fear/root etc. (Death Cauldron is an exception). SM need them due absence of range-management skills such as blink or teleportation, root or stun(don`t tell me about slow - it`s not that effective). The concept of being Debuffer and CC-er is caused by usage of Dark magic itself. Healing magic may add some survival potential, but only for PvE, and i must notice that you simply can`t be both healer and DD-er, due lack of skillpoints. Why we have to max completely useless skills to get one we want (it`s a total waste of points - for ex. left tree of left side)? Why skills have such an awful casting speed and some vital AoEs are meelee? Why there is no instant spells(not damaging but CC)? Why our autoattack is meelee? Why status effects have 50% probability and 1-2 sec duration.. it`s simply an evil joke. DoTs must be strengthen, due they are the base of damaging part for SM (especially for support builds). As said above, some solid numbers must be changed to percentage values (in debuffs(Banshee Scream for ex.), buffs). And mages must be more mobile, give us some spells (not dmg-wise) which we could use on-the-run - that may be a great asset to us, because mobility=safe for mage especially for pvp, the only role for SM is healer for now in PvP, please give us an alternative.
That`s all for now guyz, i always open for good criticism and suggestions, feel free to discuss, let`s make our class better. Have a nice day, cya)

MPure

Rank 1
MPure
Joined
17 May 2010
Posts
396
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Canada
PostedNov 26, 2012 3:52 pm
synster14 wrote:
Heals are too strong.



That's all I've got...  

Pretty much this

Atm at lvl 35, a couple dedicated support based SM's have the ability to completely control pvp outcomes, even against unfavorable numbers. This may or may not change when we can go beyond 35 and our dps and skill variety increases.

It's nice to see teamwork in group pvp though, and support also gains battle points.

shichrishi

Rank 0
Joined
26 Aug 2012
Posts
173
Location
Italy
PostedNov 26, 2012 6:13 pm
Bryan does not remove all the ideas to others ahahahah I ask only one thing, but mephisto's thorn has magic damage or not? because in the game does not say ..then the skill wilding illusion (the speed) may not increase by a little bit? because the sorecessa to zephir that goes and shadowmage only of 100 ç_ç

Shadow127

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Shadow127
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30 Jul 2010
Posts
102
Location
Zimbabwe
PostedNov 26, 2012 8:10 pm
Love the class, the heals are a bit op but i think that does make up for the lack of high damage. Only problem I can see is the spam healing in sieges but that just pushes guilds to have to try to recruit more SM's.

Calamityxz

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5
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United States
PostedNov 26, 2012 8:54 pm
need more heals Confused

Rekikyo

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Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedNov 26, 2012 9:07 pm
I don't believe heals are too strong. What is too strong is their correlation with INT. at level 3 of the skills. At level 1 of Heal or Group heal, even with 55 INT I only heal around 400-500. But when I have level 3, I can heal over 2000.

Given that a Paladin can heal 700 without even having Int, I think 2000 is fair. It's also our only salvation in a pvp fight. Melee can murder SM's because of attack speed, better single target skills, no cast times, and stuns. Also, if a SM is healing in pvp, that means they can't do anything else. For instance, when I am in a hot situation, My skill chain is > Poison Cloud >Heal >Dark Scourge > Heal > etc. Doing this chain only allows about 1 skill per 2 seconds vs 3 melee attacks.

If anything, I think the heals balance out the fact that Casters have alot less defense than melee classes, and about the SAME Dodge as melee classes. In other words, Melees don't need the heals that SM's do. For a SM to tank, they take serious damage.

That's my next point.

SM armor at level 30 has only 60-102 Defense per piece, and 80-272 Evasion.
Melee armor at level 30 has 80-232 Defense per piece, and 80-232 Evasion.

Pve, that means Melee can both tank and dodge mobs, making them near immortal. Casters Cannot. In extreme situations, a caster's HP looks like a yo-yo. Without the heals they have, they would die in every decent pull.

Runes of Magic Fetal Hit drop rate does not seem to exist, and as of yet, the only sources seem to be Ledise's Rune box Quest, and one person claims to have sold a Magic Crit +30 Blue rune (I have combined over 3000 runes and never got a single one).

On the other hand Deathblow drops as a common rune, in the lowest level region.

Please fix the drop rate on those runes.

@Mpure: The key here is "Dedicated Support SM's" If you are dedicated support, your damage skills are moot, and there is a serious trade-off. Healers are supposed to keep raids alive, correct? Also, they can be shut down. 2 SM's can easily be stunned at the same time, interrupted, and killed within 3 seconds of stun.

I disagree with Sellvehtarm and Brian about Dot being a SM's best Dps. My SM hits 510-600 normal damage with skills. The DoT on the poisons hits 80 at best. 5 ticks later, 80 = 400 total damage. I normally do 90% of my damage in direct damage. If anything, the Dot is similar to Shaiya's Frost Barrier, which offers their healer class a way to solo grind. But they are in no way stopping a major damage dealer's grind. (I started a second SM to get Dark Cauldron), and equipped it with runes; by level 12 I was killing things in 2 hits; by level 18 I was killing whole pulls in 2 hits).

(Keep in mind I said my normal hits are 510-600. I also have 97 Magic Crit, which hits up to 900 on high level mobs).

I think the MP regen is a good balancer. I have +102 at level 35, so it "helps" but doesn't eliminate pots. It makes the gold sink useful. I do run out of MP if I don't pot, but it usually takes 5-6 huge pulls to cause me to run out. Imo, the faster we kill, the better our Mana management is. (Theory is if you kill in 2-3 hits, you use 40% less MP than if you killed in 5-6 hits, saving your MP).

Would be nice if one of the skills was a 3 second stun.



Overall I think alot of people like SM's the way they are. They're enjoyable and have a good farming pace/grind pace. Once you get into pvp, you figure out you are the support/low guy on the totem poll. There should be some skill implementation to prevent this. But for the most part it helps balance the "good at PVE aspect."

Darkness is a pretty useless skill with the way Magic Attack is implemented (something I'll get to later). I already have 1198 Magic attack. Adding 75 more at the cost of 20 MP degen is rough. The impact of 75 is pretty low.... like an augmented 10 damage-30 damage.

Nature Aspect is a relatively useless skill for what it offers. 45 minute cooldown for 30 seconds of use. If this skill was 45 second CD and 30 sec duration, I would agree with Bryan that Heals are OP. Instead, Heals are the only thing we have because of this skill. AT worst it should be 5 min CD with 30 sec duration. At best it should be 30 sec Duration with a 3 min CD.

My next concern is Magic Attack versus the damage it actually does.

On a melee class, damage reflects the toon's actual Physical melee attack from the Sword/their STR. On a Caster, I can have 1198 Magic attack, and only do 500. I don't understand that. Is every mob/class in the game 50% resistant to magic? It'd be nice if the magic attack system actually reflected the damage it did, instead of being a multiplier of it. If my gear = 598 Magic Attack instead of 1198, the Darkness Skill might actually mean something.

One of the last notes: the Skill addies for SM are really not advantageous. Level 1 Dark Scourge literally only offers 20 less damage than level 3. If some players got their way, and the trees no longer required 3 points in a skill before moving on, I guarantee no one would max them at all. They'd simply pick up every skill in the entire class at level 1. We need leveling a rank 3 skill to offer some form of potency.


No Stun/pvp skills .... Ditto.

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