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JustForFun3434

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11 Feb 2012
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PostedNov 23, 2012 5:01 pm
MPure wrote:
This is a game which the main attraction is castle sieges / rvr / gvg. Balancing based on 1v1 is not logical.

I will use the last MMO I played Waren Story as an example. I played an archer there, and in the group PVP, archers and gunners were always on top in score(A couple over geared warriors did well, especially in lower numbers) assuming there were more then 10 people on each side. However, if a brawler or warrior got to us, they would kill us in 3 hits, some 2. Melee classes also did more DPS. However, ranged classes still had best results.

While I agree sorc is flawed at the moment, asking them to beat warriors and pallys in 1v1 is unrealistic. Who in their right mind would play a warrior or pally then?

In my opinion, the reason sorc isn't viable is because of shadow mage being a much better choice because their dps is comparable, and game breaking heals. Not to mention, the last time i dueled syn, I only came out of it with 500 hp, and I have a +15.  



ok first of all you can not compare the sorc class with the gunner/archer class from WS... in WS there was no casting time and you had dash skill which allow you to run away/kite the warr/brawlers from WS also the multi shot skills from arhcers/gunners in WS it DIDN'T have a chance but it had a 100% chance to knock back your enemy in the last shot...

in other words a well-play gunner/archer in WS could go 1v1 against warr/brawler even if they were at the warr attack range..

now for DK we can say that is almost impossible to kill a pali even if you playing very well cause as soon as the pali/ warr get to you.. forget it your are dead even if they don't use skills on you, why i said even if they dont use skill on you? ok i have a SM and i have the skill mana drain i was fighting against a pali and i took all his mana away and he just poked me to dead... SM dmg is by far weaker then sorc at pvp cause i could not kill that pali cause i was doing too little dmg on him and i have 1050 magic dmg...
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MPure

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MPure
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17 May 2010
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398
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Canada
PostedNov 23, 2012 5:20 pm
There were long animations on all our skills in WS as well
Dash was a skill given to everyone
The effects on skills were not 100%, far from it.

If you stopped to attack a warrior, you'd receive the same fate. Razz Not going to talk about WS anymore though.

This isn't a Shadow mage thread, but people have told me mana drains aren't very helpful/useful, and I can't stress enough that this kind of game shouldn't be balanced around 1v1.

Currently a sorc not being able to out dps a pally's heal is a problem though. This might be because we are only lvl 35's.

NytWolf

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NytWolf
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11 Aug 2007
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Doncaster United Kingdom
PostedNov 24, 2012 7:36 am
I went for the right side of the tree for the ice spells, I havn't played it in PvP but I can give my PvE experience with it.
The damage is really "meh" for a sorcerer on this side as the damage is really low even with all their skills maxed, well there is one ice spell that has a good 12 second cooldown and hits decently but when you get classes like warriors that can just spam their first skill it pretty much cancles out the point in being a sorc for hitting heavy, it wasn't untill I got my last spell in the tree which was when I was finally able to hit hard and with it being an aoe it made it a bit more of a plus as I could start to do mini aoe leveling with my pet.
The pet really needs working on as it ignores your commands way to often to make it reliable, many times I've tried to recall it back to me when it has perhaps 1 too many mobs on it and nope, it just totally ignores your "wait" command to call it back and just sits there and dies in which all the mobs will be after your *** instead which can cause a death quite easily.

So my thoughts are:

-Make the pet more responding to commands
-Give sorcs on BOTH trees 2-3 aoe ranged spells or at least lower the cooldowns on the current ones to actually make a sorc more viable (it's pathetic when you get warriors out AOEing a sorc in any game...)
-Make spells like sleep etc have a higher chance to work but increase the cooldown to make them more viable.

Quulique

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Quulique
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PostedNov 24, 2012 12:44 pm
Agree with everything Un.Leashed said, the casting bar + animation especially is incredibly annoying. As someone who prefers to prioritize cast speed over damage (though of course to balance both), not having a cast speed stat is driving me a little crazy. Shadowmages have faster casting than Sorceresses on everything including aoe, which added with the heal makes PvP with those two classes kind of one-sided as well.

Everyone has already made some pretty good points... I've taken a Sorc into Temple and soloing is doable (if terrifying) with maxed gears. Other than that in the large-scale PvP it's basically impossible for me to get out more than 1-2 hits before I die, which is not enough to kill anything, even a fellow Sorc. IMO without some reworking Sorc is just not that viable in those situations, which is a shame because they are some of the most fun aspects of DKO.

Leveling a Sorc at lower levels is a ridiculous pain in the you-know-what, given that you can really only take 1-2 mobs at a time even with Elemental helping you out. At higher levels I've taken to just dismissing the Elemental while I mob because if I don't it usually just sits behind me hitting one mob while I have all the rest with me which is pretty much the same as if it weren't around.

I definitely have to reiterate the need for an AOE lower in the skill trees. ):

Also there really should be an insta-heal pot, at the moment spamming pots is the only way I'm surviving besides hiding behind my Elemental, and considering the chain-aggroing mobs in later maps it is becoming more and more difficult either way. Even a small insta-heal would be really really helpful to us, I don't even want to imagine even higher-level mobs. Sorc as it is now would probably end up way too dependent on party play compared to the other classes in PvE.

Anyway, until this class is fixed up some I'm going to be staying on Shadowmage, cheers!

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedNov 24, 2012 1:19 pm
I agree with Synester on most things.

I would like to emphasize to major changes we need though:

Runes of Magic Critical need to drop from mobs. Deathblow Runes for physical drop pretty common, and so do Pulsing Might Runes. In other words, Physical Classes essentially get all their runes easy. Casters on the other hand, do not. I've farmed over 3000 runes, so I have an idea what I'm talking about.

HOWEVER: The suggestion I would make is, Lower the drop rate on Deathblow by half. Increase The Drop rate on Runes of Magic Crit by as much as you lower Deathblow by.

Also, I have never seen a Deathblow II or Rune of Magic Crit II drop from Combining runes. That also needs to change.



As Synester said, Casters absolutely suck in pvp. Warriors and Pallys hit single target much higher and much more reliably than do casters, and Neither Sorceress or Shadow mage really has a reliable way to shut down a Paladin's Heals. They on the other hand can stun the crap out of us and Kill us in 3 hits. They also have 1000-2000 more HP than we do....

Then again, I would argue that Casters are much better at PVE.

Robert225

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11 Nov 2008
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West Columbia United States
PostedNov 24, 2012 4:06 pm
I fill if the cast skill animation was fixed, both Shadowmage and Sorc would be really good players. As it is, if I can pop out a skill other than crit heal before getting stunned im surprised (talking about RvR). I cant even imagine how hard it is for sorc since i can kill them easily enough if it's 1v1 since i can heal. Their only chance is for their lightening attacks to both stun me and then they might kill me if they are lucky.

Definetely need to increase the chance of stun success on sorc skills, or atleast the ones that are the second tier of skills (i dont remember their names, but the ice skill after ice lance and then i think its lightening storm? Yes i know ice doesnt "stun" but the effect should be better, in fact I think it would be fair if it was like 300 move speed decrease, since sorc are supposed to be a range class which generally means kite to survive)

Also, i would suggest giving the water elemental a stun skill that can be activated by the sorc without requiring the sorc to go through the animation (aka, the elemental pops up its cast bar and animation and takes from its own mana for the skill).

And finally, since sorc hp is so low, how about giving them an hp drain skill (similar to SM mp drain) and make it accessible at an early level with like a 15-30 sec cooldown perhaps, but instant cast or 1 sec cast.

zerconius

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zerconius
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PostedNov 25, 2012 2:56 am
The Sorceress (Mage class) needs heavy damage but to be squishy against other players at times. My suggestions are as follows to balance things better.



    1) Make the cooldowns a bit more reasonable (4 to 15 seconds max)
    2) Change the Sorceress combat style to attack while running but you need to aim at your target.
    3) Adjust damage to make this a true DD style class offense wise (Roughly 15% to 20% more damage than all other current classes) but have lower physical defense than all other classes (Roughly 15% to 20% less defense of the other ones).
    4) Implement an active dodge system so all classes can dodge other classes.


Also, For anyone saying that Sorceress is support you are wrong. The list of class roles are supposed to be as follows.


    1) Archer - Physical ranged DD (later on)
    2) Paladin - Tank/Support
    3) Shadow Mage - Control/DD (Secondary on DD part)
    4) Sorceress - Magic DD class
    5) Warrior - Tank/DD

synster14

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synster14
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Pits of Despair United States
PostedNov 25, 2012 11:03 am
Just ran into something today...

Paladin bind is further cast range than sorc spells.

So, if a paladin binds us, at greater cast range than we have. He then walks to us and 3-4 shots us.

Change this.
I don't care how, as long as it doesn't happen ever again.

Ona

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Ona
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PostedNov 25, 2012 1:31 pm
I know it's cold outside for most of us, so please keep the flames in your fireplaces--not here. Further fireplace escapees will continue to be removed with very chilly water. Smile

These are some great responses, guys, keep 'em coming!

"Attitude. Humor. Action. The combination of these three elements will be the pathway to your success."

synster14

Rank 3
synster14
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Pits of Despair United States
PostedNov 25, 2012 6:47 pm
My warrior friend(MPure) actually just gave me a great idea for increasing sorceress survivability issues.

Mana Aegis.
Replace Water Aegis with it, but keep Frozen Shield.

Mana Aegis will have 3 skill levels. It will be a toggle skill. It will solve both our survival and excess mana issues.

Mana Aegs:
While active, any damage taken will be subtracted from mana instead of health.
No cooldown.
Instant cast.
When you run out of mana, Mana Aegis automatically un-toggles.

Level 1. 1:5 ratio. 1 point of damage for 5 points of mana.
Level 2. 1:4 ratio. 1 point of damage for 4 points of mana.
Level 3. 1:3 ratio. 1 point of damage for 3 points of mana.


Rates can be adjusted.
Currently, I have 3k mana. At a 1:3 ratio. My mana would be gone in 2 hits.
Enough to allow me to survive and run away, like any class. But I wouldn't be able to stay and fight.

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