Reply to Section 2:
I already mentioned that it's not always possible to have 100% fairness. For example, professional sports teams deal with player injury. However, the variables that can be manipulated are structured to foster fairness . The dragon does not provide fairness unless the winning team is guaranteed to receive it if the losing team does.
The concept of deeming a winner and loser under the most fair circumstances is the embodiment of competition. This competition is what fuels the fun that people have. The vast majority of games created emphasize triumph over another or even oneself.
Love and war are not relevant to this debate. War definitely has more important issues outside of winning and losing. The same can be said for love on a much, much lower scale. Please stick to using games or something comparable as an example.
About the analogy. I see what you mean and I'll partially agree with you here. I'll revise what I say then. Instead of saying a definite double, I'll say "additional players that at times can reach double." At times a dragon can double a team's effectiveness, but I'll concede that it can't do that all of the time.
Reply to Section 3:
Ok, well you actually could be correct about that. If I could choose my team I probably would care as much because I would select people who knew what they were doing and had the proper class advantages to mitigate the problem. I wouldn't agree with the mechanic but I would deem it more acceptable.
But... team join was removed. As per GM Mokona, the EN version is the only version that had issues with "stacking." Since that mechanic is gone, it has removed the ability of mitigating the dragon problem via preparation. Since team join is never coming back, that is more of an argument to remove the dragon to create a fair playing field.
You could argue that the dragon would be needed against five man team stacks, but now it's random versus random. Random team versus random team in a 5-on-5 with no outside help is the most ideal way to structure the game in its fairest possible way.
Also, what does the "think like a team" aspect have to do with anything? LeBron James always passed the ball to teammates and ranked among the top of the NBA in assists. When he left his team fell to dead last in the conference. I'm stating that a team is the sum of its parts whether they be equal or not. If a team is better because of one superstar, it is still a better team
Reply to section 4:
Point 1 & 2
: Fair enough, I don't think we should waste anymore space debating on these.
First: The first wasn't really an argument. It was more of a disclaimer. I was in a way depersonalizing myself from the argument since I used myself as an example.
Second: Perhaps. But still explain why the losing team deserves a dragon in the name of fairness. Explain why effort sufficient to secure a lead deserves to have a chance to be ruined by a comeback mechanic.
Third: I disagree with you completely. The strong win and the weak lose. You reap what you sow. You only receive reward proportionate to the time, money, and effort you put in. It took a while but I made sure I at least had +10 equips and knowledge of my class before even touching PVP. After that, I still died. A lot
. But by being crushed repeatedly, I learned
and became stronger. If people can't fathom losing to get better, then the only thing that would grow is a community of entitled rage quitters.
I find the PC comment very funny since it implies I enjoy bullying others. I've been crushed repeatedly and I never
complained. If I lose a crushing loss I accept it as long as it is fair
. I then adapt, learn new strategies, and become a better player. That's the mentality players should
Last: So you're stating it's okay that it exists because it doesn't happen in the vast majority of games that you're in? Because that's a good way to have the few even matches you find ruined by the dragon mechanic.
: I'm sincerely happy you've never experienced that. I do however know
this happens. In the most recent instance my lover was on the opposing team and she clearly told me what they were doing. They were freely discussing it in party chat and she relayed that information directly to me. I really don't want to have to begin recording my matches to prove that this happens.
: Redundant. No need to address since we've already addressed each other at previous points.
Reply to Section 5:
: Your section two still fails to explain how the mechanic is fair.
: Still two totally different genres. Even if your comparison was valid, I still fight other level 70s. If both of us are the same level then neither should have a difficulty higher than the other. What really kills this point is its easier
to fight people who are underleveled and undergeared. If that were not the case there would be no point in improving your character
This is still a completely irrelevant and invalid argument. Please stick to the relevant genre of games for examples.
: That's not the correct context of the definition. (Check definition 2, under verb)
2 : to make use of meanly or unfairly for one's own advantage
The key word is "unfairly." No form of exploitation is acceptable because it is unfair and considered a cheat.
Under the correct context of the definition others are hurt by the use of the dragon. Also, no I didn't exploit anyone or anything to become what I am under the context of the definition in question.
You have still yet to provide valid rebuttals proving the fairness of the mechanic. I have provided many examples of how it confounds fair gameplay. As such I feel it is a valid conclusion to call for the removal of the dragon.