Fair enough. Buffs can do wonders.
I was not arguing that "fun" was more important than "fairness" as I to believe fairness is neccesary for a game to be fun. Believe it or not, I'm one of those people who feel quite strongly (to the point of annoying others) on the issue, though usually my beaf is with actions which seem questionable in view of set rules. Typically the current set rules, be it board games, video games, or once upon a time 4-square during recess, set the boundaries that ensured fairness. Take the phrase, "all is fair in love and war." The reason for this is both lack rules, at least in view of the the phrase.
Rather, I was using "fun" as a counter to "deciding who's best" as the purpose
of the competition in HF. My reason to prefer is there are to many factors in HF which throw off an accurate decision of who's better, of which the dragon is one among many. Also, it somewhat dulls a claim to being the best if there are to many factors which may have changed your victory to a loss. Given this, it's better to use HF for the fun it offers, rather than deciding that you and players A-D are better than players V-Z.
I still see your anology as extreme. You claim you've seen teams go from 35 points behind to 70 points ahead all in the duration of the dragon. Two problems. First, there exist to many factors, from how one team uses and the other team attempts to counter the dragon, to the performance of each players' computer, to the lack of info from other rounds besides this one you witnessed. You also claim to have seen sports teams go from winning to losing all because of the loss of one player. This is pretty good proof a small change has potential to change the course of a game. The trouble with your example is that unless the doubled team consists of grade scool girls and the other team has at least semi-competant players, it will almost always end with one result.
Allow me to rephrase my response. Your problem in dealing with the dragon
is your team, not the dragon's OPness.
You need to prove the dragon should be removed, not that it needs a reason for being there.
A side note on the sports, I do not know if you've ever been on a sports team, but something a coach will always
tell the team is to think like a team and not try to be the star all the time. Sure, we love our game stars. Yes, people's talents, built up by their owners, are not made equal. Yet the fact remains, teamwork is powerful, and often necesary to win a team competition.
4. Point 1 & 2:
Your argument was "differences" plural. As I even thought to mention them, I also consider them pretty big factors. You simply believe them more a factor to your view than what I thought the biggest, that you aren't used to being one-shot and it kinda hurts mentally.
First response-Not sure I understand. What does this counter exactly?
Second response-This is true. I noticed more the point you made on your "effort" than on the fact the dragon took it. However, now I think on it more, this point is fairly similar to what I listed as the major difference in our oppinions. Only, you call it your effort as opposed to simply being a decent lvl 70 WL.
Third reason-Effort should be rewarded. At the same time that doesn't mean being week, or putting in a bit less should be crushed. This part is more a response in general and not directly relating to HF. Just because a person is somewhat newer to the game, it doesn't mean they should be outright crushed by those who've been here a while. It hurts a game's ability to grow. (Note, I don't say GF doesn't have the problem.) Back to how this relates to HF. If you want that feeling of outright crushing someone/thing, go play with the spiders outside PC. The dragon kills most players, new or old, with ease, and you don't like how much more difficult it is than the average player.
Last response- This doesn't into the difference in our views (which admittedly finding the answer to wouldn't prove anything), but is the strongest point in your favor in regards to the debate as a whole. Sadly, I find 2 even teams a rare ocurance, but if it (One team of 2 perfectly even teams relying solely on the dragon) happened often enough to be worth the effort, I'd see good reason to keep players from exploiting the dragon. This would likely come through a steeper penalty for doing nothing than ditching the dragon. Make the exploitation hard enough, and you can't blame the exploiters for lack of effort.
As I said earlier, this has never really happened to me despite doing 70 pvp enought to get over 50k saph hearts. Ha! perhaps that's
the largest difference between us. If you need a response, I'll join this with the last response of the point above.
Point 5: See first 2 paragraphs of Point 2.
Sorry for not making it more clear in that case. Although, I don't quite understand why you even argued that saying "it's part of the game" is a copout if you saw my reason for it as common sense.
Gonna leave this argument to it's location in section 2. Sadly as this is an online debate with no real judges besides a public opinion which at the moment doesn't seem wishing to interupt our posts, we can't really declare any point "refuted."
First, allow me to give an example of a platform game: Mario. Platform games are about jumping from one platform to another typically, and for the most part don't even have a levlling system. On the other hand, games which have levels and a goal of continually improving your character (for example, GF) typically have the trait of getting more difficult to advance the further you get along.
Reading both my and your previous post, I may have been misunderstood when I said "levels." I meant levels not as in stages/maps, but levels as in of your character. Perhaps I should have used GF speak and shorthanded it to "lvl."
I used the examples more as a way life works. However, due to it's lack of importance to keep up and to trim this debate, I'll scede the point. I would apreciate it if you did not claim a point to be "refuted" as us 2 seem to be the only people to decide whether a point is "refuted" or not, and I sure as heck don't see it that way.
Exploitation- 1. use or utilization, especially for profit. 2. selfish utilization. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/exploitation
I can see both of these as valid definitions. Unless it is to severe and hurts another, exploitation is fine. It was neccesary for you to exploit what you could to get to your position of at least a somewhat decent WL. Everything you just said in this point I'd agree with providing you'd add "to a too great degree" to the end of everytime you mention the word "exploitation."