I think the Enchant Re-Scaling...

Has helped PvP and was a good call!
40%140 Votes
Is good, but should've been more aggressive (lower at low lvl, higher at high lvl)
21%75 Votes
Has not helped PvP
10%35 Votes
Has made PvP less fun overall
14%52 Votes
I don't play Shaiya anymore, but my opinion still matters! (Troll vote)
13%47 Votes
Total Votes :: 349 Votes
Author Message

Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8506
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 1:14 pm
Masuyuu wrote:
 
DPS already has heal..it's called etain potion  

Last I checked pot =/= skill and isn't unlimited.


 
I'm not sure that amount of damge is going to be possible without linking a fair bit of int and using lvl 79 weapons.  


It's not, that's why it requires an actual commitment to the DPS route to do substantial damage.
Otherwise you chip away with FB/Frozen Ice (which has a huge modifier)/Magic arrow. Could always grab some toxin weapons too if really wish for the % damage.
If have an actual Damage set up you could even do kiting circles to get the 1.5 second to cast Elemental shock (aoe, no cooldown, decent modifier). Yes, you can't just stand around you have to create space.... shocker I know but that comes with having close range disadvantages like a pagan and hunter.


 
I really don't think it's that much to ask for a priest/orc to have one skill that does area damage more often than once every 15 secs and to have one skill that does damage like DB, PV, etc.  
It kinda is because you're not a DPS class other wise you'd be a Pagan/Mage.
One skill that hits more often than every 15 seconds? Frozen barrier and it doesn't even need to be casted but once every 15 minutes.
A damage skills like DB,PV? It's called KB and it's on the actual DPS class otherwise you get the one that gives attack speed + a crit rate boost that makes it possible to not need luck for DPS.



PvP wise for the "head start" thing to stop someone for a few seconds there's always the half a second for hypnosis :3 pottable so not ideal but it's all that's there beside using Degen right after or something  


I dont 100% know about Orcs, but a [19]-[20] guard wep adds about 3400 attack, which converts into roughly 7k damage .... Orcs with a similar wep would prob gain 2800 or so magic attack +, not to mention the 240 or so int on the gear, the random int stats on accs. I dont consider it "nothing" or "wont."

It wont make you a pvp god, but it should allow some PVEing. Wis also adds magic attack, albiet not much.

Advertisement

Masuyuu

Rank 4
Masuyuu
Joined
14 May 2008
Posts
3187
Location
Minerva United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 3:44 pm
That's still playing to what I was saying of putting some kind of commitment into that route because that's a lot to invest for a 19-20 weapon that normally isn't used for more than good attack speed and stat bolster when not linking Int. lol

Maineiac12

Rank 1
Joined
26 Aug 2010
Posts
231
Location
Australia
PostedNov 04, 2012 5:19 pm
Masuyuu wrote:
 
DPS already has heal..it's called etain potion  

Last I checked pot =/= skill and isn't unlimited.


 
I'm not sure that amount of damge is going to be possible without linking a fair bit of int and using lvl 79 weapons.  


It's not, that's why it requires an actual commitment to the DPS route to do substantial damage.
Otherwise you chip away with FB/Frozen Ice (which has a huge modifier)/Magic arrow. Could always grab some toxin weapons too if really wish for the % damage.
If have an actual Damage set up you could even do kiting circles to get the 1.5 second to cast Elemental shock (aoe, no cooldown, decent modifier). Yes, you can't just stand around you have to create space.... shocker I know but that comes with having close range disadvantages like a pagan and hunter.


 
I really don't think it's that much to ask for a priest/orc to have one skill that does area damage more often than once every 15 secs and to have one skill that does damage like DB, PV, etc.  
It kinda is because you're not a DPS class other wise you'd be a Pagan/Mage.
One skill that hits more often than every 15 seconds? Frozen barrier and it doesn't even need to be casted but once every 15 minutes.
A damage skills like DB,PV? It's called KB and it's on the actual DPS class otherwise you get the one that gives attack speed + a crit rate boost that makes it possible to not need luck for DPS.



PvP wise for the "head start" thing to stop someone for a few seconds there's always the half a second for hypnosis :3 pottable so not ideal but it's all that's there beside using Degen right after or something  


Yes Etain/arcane is a pot not a skill but the point remains the same, they can at least heal themselves at least once for full hp.

As far a DPS set-up yes, we can go BP and essentially ignore healing. I almost laughed out loud when you suggested kiting in order to use Elemental Shock. By the time you get far enough way, then wait the 1.5 secs to cast it, you're already hit and disrupted. Tried it enumerable times and never ever been able to get it to work.

Use hypnosis first? Yep ,that can be done, except oh, yes, most of the time it doesn't work, it's potable and again before you can pig, you're disrupted.

Frozen barrior is uselful, I'll grant, but only useful. Still does not do anywhere near enough damage to be able to effectively solo pve.

Oh, in case you haven't noticed, priest/orcs do not have KB. If we had I wouldn't have said we need a skill similar to it. I'm not talking major damage skills where we can kill a equal level warrior, simply something that does damage more than every 15 secs.

It doesn't matter anyway, but I love it how dps classes love to comment on issues involving priests/orcs and telling us how to play. So next time I pvp can I start screaming "kill faster", "use KB" "use DF" etc? I'm sure you'll appreciate it.

Maineiac12

Rank 1
Joined
26 Aug 2010
Posts
231
Location
Australia
PostedNov 04, 2012 5:22 pm
Rekikyo wrote:

I dont 100% know about Orcs, but a [19]-[20] guard wep adds about 3400 attack, which converts into roughly 7k damage .... Orcs with a similar wep would prob gain 2800 or so magic attack +, not to mention the 240 or so int on the gear, the random int stats on accs. I dont consider it "nothing" or "wont."

It wont make you a pvp god, but it should allow some PVEing. Wis also adds magic attack, albiet not much.  


So far as I can see the enchant bonus doesn't seem to apply to spell casters. If spell casters have noticed a difference please let me know, perhaps I'm not enchanted enough yet to notice but I've read on one of the topics here where mages said the same thing.

Chan375

Rank 3
Chan375
Joined
17 May 2007
Posts
1479
Location
United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 6:41 pm
Masuyuu wrote:
One skill that hits more often than every 15 seconds? Frozen barrier and it doesn't even need to be casted but once every 15 minutes.
A damage skills like DB,PV? It's called KB and it's on the actual DPS class otherwise you get the one that gives attack speed + a crit rate boost that makes it possible to not need luck for DPS.  
You must be joking on this part... FB as a DPS skill at high lvl... 650 points of damage every 4 seconds against people who have 80k hp... even with no bless that isn't a threat. It take 8 minutes to FB KI mobs to death...worse for other mobs.

Comparing EB to PV, DB etc is silly, EB has been rendered nearly useless by KO noss (even vanilla ic if you can get it) and swift lapis and just the luc from gears and OJ.

Orc/Priest should not be DPS (unless borc/BP stat and link) healers should be healers... instead we are forced to stat non-healing stats just to not be worthless, Other games I have played always give some kind of non-damaging escape skill to their healers. Most use an instant cast sleep or stun. We get a freeze with a 2 second cast time instead... and nothing at all for when we are in danger.

TotallyJay

Rank 3
TotallyJay
Joined
17 Dec 2010
Posts
1583
Location
United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 6:51 pm
Chan375 wrote:

Orc/Priest should not be DPS (unless borc/BP stat and link) healers should be healers... instead we are forced to stat non-healing stats just to not be worthless, Other games I have played always give some kind of non-damaging escape skill to their healers. Most use an instant cast sleep or stun. We get a freeze with a 2 second cast time instead... and nothing at all for when we are in danger.  


An escape skill.

Like dispel? The best escape skill in the game.

Healers so mad they can't stand and tank 50 people anymore. It's almost silly.

I'm sure Nexon apologizes for healers having to work again.

Rekikyo

Rank 5.1
Rekikyo
Joined
25 Nov 2008
Posts
8506
Location
Gaia Adrion Necria United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 6:56 pm
Maineiac12 wrote:
Rekikyo wrote:

I dont 100% know about Orcs, but a [19]-[20] guard wep adds about 3400 attack, which converts into roughly 7k damage .... Orcs with a similar wep would prob gain 2800 or so magic attack +, not to mention the 240 or so int on the gear, the random int stats on accs. I dont consider it "nothing" or "wont."

It wont make you a pvp god, but it should allow some PVEing. Wis also adds magic attack, albiet not much.  


So far as I can see the enchant bonus doesn't seem to apply to spell casters. If spell casters have noticed a difference please let me know, perhaps I'm not enchanted enough yet to notice but I've read on one of the topics here where mages said the same thing.  


here's how you self test:

take an enchanted Magic caster weapon that does not have Int/wis stats, or at least an easy to assign effect on magic attack. (take a 79 staff for instance off AH).

Take note of your magic attack unenchanted

Enchant it to [1].

Click T.

Take note of the magic attack power listed.

Now unequip your weapon altogether.

Magic attack power (total with weapon enchanted) - base weapon attack power - attack power unequipped = how much [1] enchant helps you. If it goes beyond 7 magic attack, there is a bonus.

I can say this much. At [1] I tested an Asparas on a 40 orc. I yielded no magic attack whatsoever.

BUT, the interesting thing is it didnt yield physical attack either.

I'll have to do more tests with higher enchant weapons. Someone with a 79 pagan would be immensely helpful, especially with a [19] weapon.

But yeah .... atm you seem to be correct that caster weps are bugged (or as it appears, not input into the database at all since physical attack didnt change).

(also checked a staff, and same results: no change at all to magic OR physical attack).


Being that I already proved the enchant bonuses were not linked to 1) Weapon Attack power 2) Based off a % of stats 3) based off a fixed amount and rather proved the numbers are completely arbitrary and random, this isn't a surprising result. The devs who just randomly input enchant attack values forgot to update staffs and daggers altogether. They made Guard weapons more powerful than either Hunter OR warrior Weapons as well.

It was purely a rush job and while it's sparked player interest, imo it was poorly executed because it does not have any sign of well thought out balance, and it does not have a logical system to explain their bonus choices.

Masuyuu

Rank 4
Masuyuu
Joined
14 May 2008
Posts
3187
Location
Minerva United States
PostedNov 04, 2012 7:32 pm
Chan375 wrote:
You must be joking on this part... FB as a DPS skill at high lvl... 650 points of damage every 4 seconds against people who have 80k hp... even with no bless that isn't a threat. It take 8 minutes to FB KI mobs to death...worse for other mobs.

Comparing EB to PV, DB etc is silly, EB has been rendered nearly useless by KO noss (even vanilla ic if you can get it) and swift lapis and just the luc from gears and OJ.

Orc/Priest should not be DPS (unless borc/BP stat and link) healers should be healers... instead we are forced to stat non-healing stats just to not be worthless, Other games I have played always give some kind of non-damaging escape skill to their healers. Most use an instant cast sleep or stun. We get a freeze with a 2 second cast time instead... and nothing at all for when we are in danger.  


No, I wasn't. Did I say anything anywhere about it being a very effective means? No, I most certainly did not but it IS what you have to do something for essentially nothing at all.

Did I compare EB to something that actually does damage? No, what I did say is that's what you got to help with what you could do without the need to waste slots on swifts if you don't want to or keep up with KO's (which is actually worse btw due to the low set mod better off with the base luck boosts and EB)

Hypnosis, like I already said, is that "instant sleep" or as close as can get anyway with it being near undisruptable at half a second. it is a very limited scope but it's not really nothing. There's also ES, Dispels/pots, Magic protector to help "escapes" lol

There are "Hybrid" builds that try to have some kind of effectiveness thru high enchants and minor oranges as Reki said without sacing too much from rec/wis but it's kinda of expensive and rare, as well as not that effective as one would hope beyond grinder wiping and farming.

Maineiac12 wrote:

I almost laughed out loud when you suggested kiting in order to use Elemental Shock. By the time you get far enough way, then wait the 1.5 secs to cast it, you're already hit and disrupted. Tried it enumerable times and never ever been able to get it to work.  


Then you aren't doing it right because it's very much possible, as I've done it. It's how I leveled on my own before finding a friend to duo with on a regular basis. I will say however it's very annoying and not at all "easy" or "fast" but it beat standing there (irrelevant note: I was also doing this without the luxury of Frozen barrier for a while too)


 
Yes Etain/arcane is a pot not a skill but the point remains the same, they can at least heal themselves at least once for full hp.  
No, it's not the same because one is indefinite and part of the class the other is not. Everyone is not a healer because they can pop a pot. lol

 
Oh, in case you haven't noticed, priest/orcs do not have KB  

You don't say? maybe that's why I said "and that's on an actual DPS class" please don't selective read and then get snarky about it =P


 
I love it how dps classes love to comment on issues involving priests/orcs and telling us how to play. So next time I pvp can I start screaming "kill faster", "use KB" "use DF" etc? I'm sure you'll appreciate it.  


That's a nice assumption but I've played every class and have experience in every style of play in the game.
I mostly specialized in Healing and Assassin play and more recently battletank as well when new skills came. (late ep.4 early ep.5)
Just because I'm not some famous, uber geared, high ranked, master pvp'er doesn't mean I haven't been around learning things >.>

I'm not telling you how to play I'm giving you examples of experience and what can be used lol

You can feel free to yell that till you're blue in the face and it'll probably go over as well as them yelling "DISP PLS!" or "Y No heal!?" while you're being attacked without help or dead. :3

RelentlessPace

Rank 4
RelentlessPace
Joined
09 Apr 2012
Posts
1693
Location
Braila Romania
PostedNov 05, 2012 7:38 am
Masuyuu wrote:


I'm not telling you how to play I'm giving you examples of experience and what can be used lol

You can feel free to yell that till you're blue in the face and it'll probably go over as well as them yelling "DISP PLS!" or "Y No heal!?" while you're being attacked without help or dead. :3  


Laughing

krise21

Rank 1
krise21
Joined
11 Dec 2010
Posts
273
Location
United States
PostedNov 05, 2012 10:20 am
TotallyJay wrote:
Chan375 wrote:

Orc/Priest should not be DPS (unless borc/BP stat and link) healers should be healers... instead we are forced to stat non-healing stats just to not be worthless, Other games I have played always give some kind of non-damaging escape skill to their healers. Most use an instant cast sleep or stun. We get a freeze with a 2 second cast time instead... and nothing at all for when we are in danger.  


An escape skill.

Like dispel? The best escape skill in the game.

Healers so mad they can't stand and tank 50 people anymore. It's almost silly.

I'm sure Nexon apologizes for healers having to work again.  


maybe for end game having to work again. low lvl pvpers just want the attack boost scaled down some to meet what would be appropriate for the lvl of pvp...

Display posts from previous:   Sort by: