Author Message

Syarl

Rank 1
Joined
13 Dec 2011
Posts
310
Location
United States
PostedOct 15, 2012 2:38 pm   Last edited by Syarl on Oct 16, 2012 7:59 pm. Edited 2 times in total

STR vs LUC

I want to know what most people think is better? Say something like 600 luc 1k dex Rest in STR
Or 1k DEX and the rest in LUC.
I'm not talking about just distribuatable stat points but lapis and OJ stats.

Lets assume there is no budget and that I can link any piece of gear I need with any Lapis I'd like. Also that I can afford GM max OJ on each piece of gear.

In PvP which set up will get me the highest DPS.

Looking for a more in depth talk with numbers and math than just STR or LUC
Advertisement

MerlinMcTav

Rank 5.1
MerlinMcTav
Joined
19 Dec 2008
Posts
7246
Location
New Zealand
PostedOct 15, 2012 9:08 pm
We need a bit more information before we can answer this question I'm afraid.
- What level are you now?
- What level are you aiming at?
- What sort of budget do you have?

One thing though, all luck is an ineffective build. Even mostly luck is ineffective as a grinding build until you can get enough to consistently crit (around 250-300 luck is okay, but the more the better up to 95% crit rate).

RIP Kizzd

Syarl

Rank 1
Joined
13 Dec 2011
Posts
310
Location
United States
PostedOct 16, 2012 8:44 pm
Edited original post

shane247

Rank 1
shane247
Joined
20 May 2010
Posts
336
Location
Beccles United Kingdom
PostedOct 16, 2012 9:03 pm
Which class are you ? this makes a bit of a difference to the maths side of it as sin/rangers get dex/luck buffs, and hunters get increased damage from luck.

James Godden (think i spelt that right) is very good with this question maybe PM him or check out his Assassin/ranger guide in the class guides section of the forum.

Signature deleted due to shaiya sucking so bad

Syarl

Rank 1
Joined
13 Dec 2011
Posts
310
Location
United States
PostedOct 16, 2012 9:05 pm
Archer....

I'll try and pm him

LoDebar

Rank 3
LoDebar
Joined
10 Aug 2008
Posts
943
Location
Rekikyo's Neighbor United States
PostedOct 17, 2012 12:09 am
On average, 1 point in STR yields more Damage than 1 point in LUC for a critical hit, and 1 point in STR always yields more damage than 1 point in LUC for a non critical hit.

Both of the above are true for low DEF and low ABS targets. When dealing with low ABS and high DEF targets, then there are some cases where LUC might score more damage than STR.

Syarl

Rank 1
Joined
13 Dec 2011
Posts
310
Location
United States
PostedOct 17, 2012 7:57 am
So are absorbed factored in before or after the critical hit?
I know that the attack vs def is factored in before the critical damage is applied. But what exactly is considered a high def target? Something with def higher than your atk or something with def that is within (random #) 25% of your max atk?

With the new armors and their ridiculously high def do you think that the Luc is/will be superior?

LoDebar

Rank 3
LoDebar
Joined
10 Aug 2008
Posts
943
Location
Rekikyo's Neighbor United States
PostedOct 17, 2012 1:53 pm
The order of the calculation is very important here.

1. Determine if you actually hit the target
2. If yes, then determine if the hit was a critical hit.
3. If yes, calculate the critical hit bonus:
Bonus = LUC*(Random number between 0 and 1.5) - (Armor Enchant) - (Lapis Absorb)
The Bonus can be either positive or negative
Here is where the tricky part comes in:
If the Bonus is positive, then the that value is scored as direct damage to the target.
If the Bonus is negative, then that is carried over to the based damage equation.
To simplify this, we will call the remaining bonus Residual_Absorb
Residual_Absorb = 0 if Bonus > 0
Residual_Absorb = Abs(Bonus) if Bonus <=0
4. Calculate base damage
Base Damage = (Attack - Defense)*Ele*C1 - Residual_Absorb
C1 = 1.0 for not Crit Hit, C1 = 1.5 for Crit Hit
Ele = elemental damage, value varies depending on ele vs ele in weapon and armor.

Absorb is computed first. Depending on your target's absorb and your LUC, there may be zero damage to the target for every critical hit.

You need LUC to get the critical hits to maximize the base damage. But the direct damage due to the LUC bonus is heavily affected by the Absorb.

This is one of the biggest things that nerfed that archer class. When EP 5 came into play.

Right now it is hard to say how LUC will play with the new High Def armors. If someone has 1000 LUC, the average LUC bonus will be 750 (a range from 0 to 1500). The lvl 7 absorb lapis is already in the game at 100 Absorb a piece. If the target has 4 of them, that is 400 off the 750 for a remainder of 350 average LUC bonus damage. the lvl 8 and 9 absorb have 150 and 200 absorb respectively. The lvl 8 absorb will be AP items in tiered events very soon. Well three of those will will absorb another 450 points. Hence with a few lapis, a target can completely negate any special damage that an archer could deliver.

Then because the archer has put so much of the stats in LUC, their base attack is pathetically low, thus the targets base defense overwhelms all/most of the attack power of the archer. Hence, archers are nerfed even more with the new armors.

If Nexon doesn't fix this, then archers will remain a novelty class for the few people that want to endure the pain of leveling slowly because the majority of the community doesn't want to party archers because they already know they have an extremely low DPS.

Archers should not be an AOE class, but they should be deadly in the one on one fight.

I will continue to play my archers to the very end. I enjoy the class, but wish it was a bit more effective

Syarl

Rank 1
Joined
13 Dec 2011
Posts
310
Location
United States
PostedOct 18, 2012 4:40 pm
Thanks, that is exactly what I needed to run the numbers myself

JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8331
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedOct 19, 2012 3:40 am
That abs calc is wrong.... or written incredibly badly, as it is implying the bonus of LUC is affected whereas its the total damage.

Absorption is a deductible from the total damage output, nothing more complicated than that,

i.e. if u hit 5000 vs 0 abs you'd hit 4000 vs 1000 abs

Absorb affects every hit in exactly the same way, and also effects everything build in the same way, it doesn't especially hurt any style build.

maximum noncrit

("max"atk-def)*ele - abs

max crit

(("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] - abs,

in both cases the damage removed by is the same, and also in both cases the abs is a simple deduction which could be rearranged to be a formula such as:

(("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 - abs + LUC*RND[0-1.5]

or:

- abs + (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5]

basically Absorb acts the same regardless of build, class or anything else, and it hurts crits and noncrits for the same amount (i.e. Luc is irrelevant)

Display posts from previous:   Sort by: