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SammyJ15992

Rank 0
SammyJ15992
Joined
21 May 2008
Posts
97
Location
Melaka Malaysia
PostedOct 13, 2012 7:41 pm
kmhasan wrote:
What low HP are you talking about? I run about with as much HP as most fighters do.  


Nice, you are the top percent of archers who have life 7s in everything that you have more HP than anyone...not just fighters...just becoz you can afford life 7s in everything doesn't mean we have high HP
if everyone did what you did the HP would still be the same

kmhasan wrote:
But then again, it wouldn't be realistic to fantasize an archer that can shoot so many arrows in one go.  


Why not?
Fighters have many AOEs...since when is it realistic to spin blindly for 20 seconds in the middle of battle....
oppan Garen Style >.>
we already have Wideshot...but its on too long of a cool down
we have shower time...again on too long of a CD...
they removed VSS aoe...even that would help
they also never gave us our other AOE...
they could simply bring down shower time to 30 sec CD...
suddenly we have 2 AOEs every pull...and are useful..
not on Fighters lvl but its a start
and dont give me fighters should be able to do more AOE damage...
Thats a mages job -.-

kmhasan wrote:
What we do have, though, is the range benefit. It alone outweighs all you said here in this thread.  


No it doesn't, unless you have an extremely high pvp rank with a really high + wep
Range means nothing...
5 shots b4 the mob reaches you, 5 hits till you die, kiting is a possibility but we shouldn't have to kite for 15 seconds if we have such great attack -.-
not to mention that kiting doesnt even work that well with all the range glitches lol
To the point where ppl will take a 3-4 lvl lower Fighter...even NM if no others are available, JUST BECOZ, they can hit more mobs, who cares that they'd only hit 5 lol

Archers advantages were Crit + Range, and neither work very well anymore
everyone has crit, range means nothing.

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cnctina2

Rank 3
cnctina2
Joined
30 Dec 2009
Posts
933
Location
United States
PostedOct 15, 2012 8:47 am
Archers are nerfed...
Rangers are nerfed...
Mages are nerfed...

Eventually, when people get tired of spending real money on nerfed classes there will only be Fighters, Defenders, and Priests (Same for fury classes of course)

/End of rant

LoDebar

Rank 3
LoDebar
Joined
10 Aug 2008
Posts
916
Location
Rekikyo's Neighbor United States
PostedOct 17, 2012 12:27 am
You all have completely forgotten the Absorb issue.

One of the intentional advantages the Archers was supposed to have is that when you get a Critical Hit, then there is this LUC*(Random number between 0 and 1.5) that goes straight through the target's Defense.

The Archer class was to be the counter to the Defender class.

But since Absorb came into this picture in armor enchants and lapis, that advantage has completely gone away.

Now the formula starts out like this - determine if critical hit. If yes, calculate LUC*(Random number between 0 and 1.5) - Enchant Absorb - Lapis Absorb. If the number is positive, then that positive number is applied directly as damage to the target. If the number is negative, than that number is applied to the regular damage formula that then subtracts the targets Defense.

Because of this, STR builds are better builds than LUC builds. Yes, you need some LUC for critting, and due to lapis restrictions on gear, LUC lapis needs to be added to the gear. But now that there is the Level 8 Stat lapis in this game, most people will be linking half the LUC Lapis they used to link because STR yields more damage on average than LUC.

Thus the Absorb issue is one of the main things that has nerfed the archer class.

Also, Archers need much greater range than fighters Stinger. You only get in 1 or 2 hits before the stinger gets the fighter on top of you. Thus the fighter is eating you for lunch, and you are hitting for 1/3 less damage because he is too close to you.

ziqo91

Rank 2
ziqo91
Joined
14 Nov 2009
Posts
522
Location
Apulune Malaysia
PostedOct 17, 2012 1:45 am
mybe its time for me to say goodbye to shaiya..
all messed up after ep5 comes... getting worse with ep6..
*for goddess pvp* (although i dont know if they want to fix this or not)
ep5 - bdef rules evrything since lv7 lapis come out, go full rec/str + noss = owning Laughing
ep6 - no goddess pvp at all

cnctina2

Rank 3
cnctina2
Joined
30 Dec 2009
Posts
933
Location
United States
PostedOct 17, 2012 6:27 am
ziqo91 wrote:
mybe its time for me to say goodbye to shaiya..
all messed up after ep5 comes... getting worse with ep6..
*for goddess pvp* (although i dont know if they want to fix this or not)
ep5 - bdef rules evrything since lv7 lapis come out, go full rec/str + noss = owning Laughing
ep6 - no goddess pvp at all  


I don't know about Shaiya but it certainly was time for me to say goodbye to my archer.

JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8330
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedOct 17, 2012 6:50 am
ziqo91 wrote:
ep5 - bdef rules evrything since lv7 lapis come out, go full rec/str + noss = owning Laughing  


That isn't true Wink str/rec + conc noss vs a gd dex build in ep5 = dex build wins

ziqo91

Rank 2
ziqo91
Joined
14 Nov 2009
Posts
522
Location
Apulune Malaysia
PostedOct 17, 2012 7:06 am
JamesGodden wrote:
ziqo91 wrote:
ep5 - bdef rules evrything since lv7 lapis come out, go full rec/str + noss = owning Laughing  


That isn't true Wink str/rec + conc noss vs a gd dex build in ep5 = dex build wins  

at goddess i didnt see dex build wins... at lv70 i dont know..

JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8330
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedOct 17, 2012 7:08 am
ziqo91 wrote:
JamesGodden wrote:
ziqo91 wrote:
ep5 - bdef rules evrything since lv7 lapis come out, go full rec/str + noss = owning Laughing  


That isn't true Wink str/rec + conc noss vs a gd dex build in ep5 = dex build wins  

at goddess i didnt see dex build wins... at lv70 i dont know..  


In goddess dex builds would be winning even easier (goddess has hardly any defence compared to the huge difference between the def of the 70 def set and 70 ranger set)

mind you I was referring to Rogues not Archers Smile but culae's dex build worked in 70 for a hunter too.

JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8330
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedOct 19, 2012 3:41 am
Oh and that abs calc is wrong.... or written incredibly badly, as it is implying the bonus of LUC is affected whereas its the total damage.

Absorption is a deductible from the total damage output, nothing more complicated than that,

i.e. if u hit 5000 vs 0 abs you'd hit 4000 vs 1000 abs

Absorb affects every hit in exactly the same way, and also effects everything build in the same way, it doesn't especially hurt any style build.

maximum noncrit

("max"atk-def)*ele - abs

max crit

(("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] - abs,

in both cases the damage removed by is the same, and also in both cases the abs is a simple deduction which could be rearranged to be a formula such as:

(("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 - abs + LUC*RND[0-1.5]

or:

- abs + (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5]

basically Absorb acts the same regardless of build, class or anything else, and it hurts crits and noncrits for the same amount (i.e. Luc is irrelevant)

LtWorf

Rank 2
LtWorf
Joined
05 May 2011
Posts
521
Location
Peoria United States
PostedOct 19, 2012 4:12 am
I have a decent Archer 70 and a great hunter 70 and really no problems at all when facing any other classes. Tanking was not a issue either I could round as many mobs up as a defender/guard or fighter/war. I couldnt hit them all at once and kill them all at the same time. As fars as taking on defs/guards i guess thats all a matter of how u learn to play your toon and how u approach them. Archers are great for killing guards 1on1 or in group pvp you gang them. A archers role is to be a support role for the fighters/defs same as mages your ranged.

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