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Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedAug 25, 2012 1:38 am
lol. Playing a hunter for 2 years + .... it's still one of the more fun classes for me. It's alot more about using your environment than any other class, even if the skills are limited.

Also, Enchant nerfed EVERYONE's damage the same, regardless of luc damage. It has no more effect on a Luc build than a STR build. 500 damage reduction is 500 damage reduction.

It's all about building your class correctly.

@ Arma: I agree with others at this point that an equally ubered war vs a equally ubers hunter; hunters have less skills to lay down that do damage, and not enough multi hitters to make up the difference. The one advantage a hunter has is that range allows them to hit a target first. However, if a war is right there, They'll catch up the damage easy.

But, all that tells me is that the hunter needs to play more of its own role than trying to be a warrior.

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voske4000

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voske4000
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tielt Belgium
PostedAug 25, 2012 1:42 am
Nyrne wrote:
besides archers/hunters r still strong. might be they cant outdps warr/fighter by default but they r nowhere useless.  


this

its a simple fact that warrior/fighter is are overpowered compared to the rest, so u could easily make a post like this for every other class if u follow the OP's thought pattern
as for the enchants killing LUC build... no real logic there... enchant and stats dont really have much to do with each other, a high enchant ruins every build in a way Very Happy

jazkake

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jazkake
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PostedAug 25, 2012 3:25 am
voske4000 wrote:
Nyrne wrote:
besides archers/hunters r still strong. might be they cant outdps warr/fighter by default but they r nowhere useless.  


this

its a simple fact that warrior/fighter is are overpowered compared to the rest, so u could easily make a post like this for every other class if u follow the OP's thought pattern
as for the enchants killing LUC build... no real logic there... enchant and stats dont really have much to do with each other, a high enchant ruins every build in a way Very Happy  


+1

u say hunterr nerfed.....go play pgn...take a look how the resistance issues have been/not been solved and then come and tell me about they nerfing down other classes...

evan713

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evan713
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PostedAug 25, 2012 3:36 am
Rekikyo wrote:
But, all that tells me is that the hunter needs to play more of its own role than trying to be a warrior.  


This right here that you said is what so many ppl are forgetting. If you want be at the front lines and still not die like a war or a guard and you're like a hunter or a pagan i dont really see it working well. Like my first day at goddess with pagan, being a former war i was up at front trying to tank >.> died alot as you can assume. Thing is not every class its suppose to have the same strenghts or weakneses. If that were the case, id suggest making erasing every other class...

As far as hunters and warriors, look at what i said "out dps or atleast are MORE DANGEROUS". Ill stick with that statement, players like Othilla or BesaMeCul, Chewie CT's hunter,(i know Ive left alot of mages/hunters/assasins sorry xD), prove that still its not all about wars or fighters.

Qxygen

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PostedAug 25, 2012 5:38 am
I agree that archers/hunters are in almost all cases at a disadvantage against fighters/warriors (they have stinger which instantly eliminates the range advantage AND stuns...), but so are the other classes.

Mages/pagans have the same problem. And if the opponent has high resist, well you might as well just turn and run away.

Mages have exactly ZERO multi-hitting skills, only 3 DoTs (and the only one that is good is UM only), and almost all of their debuffs can be potted/dispelled. Generally the only unique ability of the class is the vast amount of AoEs, which have also been nerfed over time (no more ranged AoEs in 1-15 etc.), not to mention the fact that fighters have a tonne of self-AoEs that have unpottable debuffs and multi-hits.

So yeah, fighters/warriors are overpowered as Hard.

Posted By Aeria Mobile

cnctina2

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cnctina2
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PostedAug 25, 2012 5:40 am
So many posts that make good points I agree with. Fighters/Warriors have a big advantage over Archers/Hunters but then again they have a big advantage over all classes. I believe their advantage has only been getting bigger with each episode and I doubt that trend is going to be reversed in ep6. Play the other classes if you think they are more fun but be prepared to be the minority and weaker.

And Besa gets the trophy for 'Best in Class' as far as I am concerned. He makes me wish we were in the same faction so I could learn from him, and yet he still hits me for half of what the top warriors do.

LoDebar

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LoDebar
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PostedAug 25, 2012 11:51 am
Rekikyo, Will you quit making references to targets that have 500 total in absorb lapis and armor enchant in your comparisons. The issues is the targets that have over 1000. Run your calculations against PvP targets that have over 1000 absorb.

People that complain about archers killing them easily have very little absorb, or they are talking about the very few archers that are in the uber class.

Archers Damage per stat point is less than the other classes. The only place where they can really hurt people is in the Random(0-1.5)*LUC part of the formula in a "Critical Hit." But Absorb Lapis and Armor Enchant wipes all that out.

When you have targets that have over 1000 in this area, Archers are completely useless. Why? Only the ubber archers have over 1000 LUC. On average the Random(0-1.5) is 0.75 0.75*1000 LUC = 750 LUC bonus. But a target with over 1000 Absorb eats all of that up.

If you got a good roll, then 1.5*1000LUC = 1500 damage bonus. Absorb takes 1000 from that, and then 500 will go through the defense of the target to damage the target. The rest of the damage formula will subtract the target's DEF from the remaining to yield the final damage.

Targets that have over 1000 Absorb also have over 1000 DEF.

A warrior/fighter will yield more damage against these targets than an Archer will because their damage formula yields more DPS than an archer does.

The purpose of the archer is to hurt the high DEF targets, but since Absorb/Enchant came into the game, archers have been nerfed.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedAug 25, 2012 12:15 pm
LoDebar wrote:
Rekikyo, Will you quit making references to targets that have 500 total in absorb lapis and armor enchant in your comparisons. The issues is the targets that have over 1000. Run your calculations against PvP targets that have over 1000 absorb.

People that complain about archers killing them easily have very little absorb, or they are talking about the very few archers that are in the uber class.

Archers Damage per stat point is less than the other classes. The only place where they can really hurt people is in the Random(0-1.5)*LUC part of the formula in a "Critical Hit." But Absorb Lapis and Armor Enchant wipes all that out.

When you have targets that have over 1000 in this area, Archers are completely useless. Why? Only the ubber archers have over 1000 LUC. On average the Random(0-1.5) is 0.75 0.75*1000 LUC = 750 LUC bonus. But a target with over 1000 Absorb eats all of that up.

If you got a good roll, then 1.5*1000LUC = 1500 damage bonus. Absorb takes 1000 from that, and then 500 will go through the defense of the target to damage the target. The rest of the damage formula will subtract the target's DEF from the remaining to yield the final damage.

Targets that have over 1000 Absorb also have over 1000 DEF.

A warrior/fighter will yield more damage against these targets than an Archer will because their damage formula yields more DPS than an archer does.

The purpose of the archer is to hurt the high DEF targets, but since Absorb/Enchant came into the game, archers have been nerfed.  


Lo, my hunter has 1900+ Str 1100+ Luc 1200+ Dex. your claims about builds are simply false.

On right ele I hit near 7-10k depending on the target. 1000 Absorp reduces me to 6000-9000. 1000 also reduces a warrior that hits 10k to 9k. it has the SAME EFFECT on all classes.

If I was full Luc, I would have 1900 Luc, 1200 str, 1200 dex. Even then, I far outstrip your 1000 Absorp. And yes, I have tried full luc Ep5.

I found it did exactly what it did in Ep4: Hit about the same maximum damage range as a STR build, but the minimum was much lower (because 0 times 1900 luc = 0 damage..)

You need to stop separating Luc damage from STR and DEX and Weapon damage. They all add up before Absorp is substracted.

Rekikyo

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Rekikyo
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PostedAug 25, 2012 12:20 pm
P.S. I have 1v1'd people like MAXIMUS who had 3200 defense 92k HP. I did roughly 1700 damage to him consistently. And I could kill him too. Sustain shot does wonders, when mixed with VSS. Doesn't work as well for a priest, but I've came very close to 1v1 killing priests too, and they cap out at roughly 2550 defense, 2800 with pvp rank. Still 400 less than a rec guard.

Diira

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Diira
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PostedAug 25, 2012 12:28 pm
Dunno much about archers, but Reki is right that absorption reduces the FINAL damage, the damage counted after every possible formula affected.
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