Synith. wrote:

All classes have their advantages and disadvantages.. but I love my class. I feel I level up at a faster rate because I can do FAST and critical damage on monsters... I don't give a **** for PVP really so I'm not going to branch off into that subject. But I can answer this: 3. When you are a ranger do you run with dual swords out by default like you do when you're an archer or is it bow? (it should be bow) ↪ Dual swords will be displayed if you have not attacked anything with your bow. The moment you sit down with your bow out after killing something with your ranged attack, the bow will dissapear from wielding and it will only show the swords you have equipped. But I agree that your bow should display all the time.

Press "z" to do that same effect while standing/ sitting while out of combat

I have two important question that will help me decide.

1. The AoE that you get as SS, can you for example select the ground or wherever to use it?

2. Is the range of shooting mobs increased from Archer>Ranger? The range of being able to shoot mobs as an archer is so extremely small, like if I click to attack an enemy, I'm always running up fairly close to attack it, it's really annoying and if the range is the same as a ranger or SS then they should change the desc to "Specializes in close range" and you don't feel like an archer at all because real archers can shoot much farther than just a few meters.

Even if ranger gets a few feet more of range I'll be happy because as an archer you can only get 3-4 hits using a bow before you have to switch to melee because the mob is too close, if it was 4-5 hits I would be much happier.

idk about the first since I havent played SS but aparently so

the second depends on the skill, archer skill has a shorter range yes but if you first use a ranger skill then archer you use the same distance as the ranger skill, the same can be done using sins skill

edit:
though I will say sins has more stuns compare to ranger, one of which is a range stun that last 4 seconds so you have more time to do more hits and ofc the kb skill if the mob get too close.

dont just pick cuz people say it's easier to play and better, base it more around your playing style, some classes are better than others yes but it also depends on how you play and what gear you have. rangers maybe best in some arena but if you dont know how to play and/or if you dont have the right gear to back it up you wont do well

asiagf wrote:

I have two important question that will help me decide. 1. The AoE that you get as SS, can you for example select the ground or wherever to use it? 2. Is the range of shooting mobs increased from Archer>Ranger? The range of being able to shoot mobs as an archer is so extremely small, like if I click to attack an enemy, I'm always running up fairly close to attack it, it's really annoying and if the range is the same as a ranger or SS then they should change the desc to "Specializes in close range" and you don't feel like an archer at all because real archers can shoot much farther than just a few meters. Even if ranger gets a few feet more of range I'll be happy because as an archer you can only get 3-4 hits using a bow before you have to switch to melee because the mob is too close, if it was 4-5 hits I would be much happier.

1. It's non target self aoe 8m with knockback if it hits. Basically it's like toxic cloud skill by mages. It's very very useful since thanks to this skill SS can't be deadzoned infinitely anymore. The damage is calculated from range damage and not melee, so it hits hard. It can also be used while in stealth, so it's very handy to uncover stealthers if you know where they are.

2. The range is pretty much the same. The problem you are having right now is not the range but rather range attack SPEED. since you shoot very slow as an archer, you only pull off a few shots and the mobs get close to you. You get Quickdraw 1 when you class change to ranger which will help boost your range speed by +12%. You get weasel dodge as ranger too which lets you fade step a few meters away.

If your are still in the low 20s, i suggest you craft/buy lvl 18 orange bow Heavenly Noble i believe is the name. When the bow procs, range isn't much of an issue now is it?

If you still want to pursue ranger then i suggest you get accessories with +range attack speed on them. they are a must have.

and when your an SS your attack range with bows/guns is so large its insane you can shoot from ages away and pretty much shoot people that are standing next to you ... quite OP. but as Reble said if you cant play it well then you wont be able to perform well at all.

In "My Opinion", and Experience with both classes(mainly my playing style), Ranger is a better choice.

Pve Ranger: Can Soft Cap Range Attack Speed, good crits, fair evade, can easily stun lock quest bosses for easy solo'ing, and keep any mob from getting close into close range, High Hit Rate. all these helped me progress with a Ranger/SharpShooter(SS), talent changing on situations gives the most useage out of your class. as for melee capability we have talents that allows us to change from a Ranger to a melee-ranger in second (Sword Spec + Art of denfense) which can also allow us to solo dungeons such as ACV when equipped with certain armor(pvp sets, and lvl65 sprite set, leech sword, 66bow) while maintaining high evade boost from melee talent combo. by time your lvl60 in melee mode, you can have up to 70% sword damage easy which is a huge boost to your strength. our downfall to being a melee ranger/SS is the lack of skill, and close range attack speed. we only have 4 melee skills(that's including the novice skills). A PVE ranger in Action(MCM mob solo'ing)

PVP Ranger: Yes it's true we can't restealth once in battle mode, but who cares, again we can soft cap the attack speed, we have Anti-stun(Mongoose reflex) only last 5seconds, but helps, and that 5seconds can easily be increased with PVP sets, and the lvl65 sprite set, and lvl80 orange/yellow set, which means longer Anti-stun with 70-75% evade boost. we're a sin's worst enemy in pvp other than zerks, and paladins. because rangers are one of the only classes that can max their attack speed with no problem, may it be using the Level28 NT bow proc, with Watchkeeper Proc. that proc combo give +150% hit rate, your never missing your target no matter if the sin's Evade was to hit over 200. not to forget that watchkeeper also gives a +50% attack speed boost to bow attack. so we're deadly, rangers are very good at capturing the crystal, and protecting, and 1 on 1 fights 9/10chances a ranger can win with minor problems, a well built ranger will need to get ganged by 2 or more people jsut to go down. want to see how good pro rangers do in arena then watch this , or this , or this , or this , and lastly this
These vids show how a ranger should play in PVP, and how good they really are.

my personal build for ranger both PVE/PVP from level31-48 i use
Flaming Fang + Sword of Dawn for sword, +20% chance of double hit on both swords(not expected to get into much close range fighting so these swords are your friends) note: that doublt/triple hit percentage doesn't stack, they act individually,

Eye of the Heart Bow(level28 NT bow)(10% chance activate weapon ability when attacking Ability: Long-Range Hit +100% for 20 sec), and

Watchkeeper's Bow(Level38 NT bow)(+4% chance to hit When physically attacking 10% chance to cause Beast 462 DMG 12% chance to activate weapon ability when attacking Ability: Bow Attack Speed +50%, Long-Range Hit +20% Lasts 20 sec.).

For armor some ranger's use Ranger Legacy(b/c of the HP boost it gives), but i prefered to use Hawkeye Set + lvl34 Blue helm(b/c of the crit damage boost, and skill boost, also prefix boost depending on what i want for a prefix: Evasive, Perservering are probly the prefix you want on your orange armor. For weapons, Deadly, Death, Swift, and Accuracy are your best bet), a cape with sleep effect was my choice to stop alot of people from ganging me, and cut their DPS, but cape choice is yours.


From old experience with Assassin
Sin Pve: fast melee attack speed, high evade if they know how toggle their buffs, can stealth when ever they want basically. can change to range easily(but of course not a better range fighter than ranger). Can Solo ACV much faster than a Ranger/SS, due to them being built for close range.

i haven't pvp'ed as an assassin much, but i've seen most in lvl40 arena use 2 nightmare wraths, miracle bow(+4% chance to hit
8% chance to activate weapon ability when attacking Ability: Restore 625-1250 HP to yourself, Movement Speed +10%, for 30 sec), Watchkeeper(for shooting down runners) or assassin fingers(When equipped, Evasion +15%), and i personally believe they use Ambush set for the evade boost.(personally don't know some people choose sin legacy for pvp over ambush. if they want more HP they should get the lvl36 blue swords, and change the prefix until it gives a lot VIT), as they get higher level in PVP i think they start to fall, and get suckier, not saying their damage out put sucks, but other classes get much better then sins, for example: Level 70 arena.

Temps can obtain anti-stun with the lvl65 pvp set, lvl50 shield yellow shield(100% crit proc), lvl68/70 relic(-100% magic damage received when procs) high Defense(so for physical classes they have to gang and hope to take it out quick, or leave for magic classes to fight alone), and Leech Sword, 60/65axe, 60/70hammer can be used for DS pwn'ing, not to mentioned that magic attack they use for pulling can now stun, and very good built Temps can hit through Evade very easy.

WL can achieve Pure Raw Damage, Bullcharge is 100% hit, with stun(stun throws Evade to 0) so a DS would crumble fast, most WL will have high attack speed, and very good WL can crit very often, and high, they can have good Defense, but not as good as a Temp, so their is a chance a DS can kill one, but not to often unless the DS is very good. WL have Leech sword, Sleep hammer(used for defensive reasons), seen some use Lvl50 yellow shield for crit proc, and will use 70 1-h axe can also leech HP, but they can also use lvl65 axe for more damage. lvl68 orange gun for +55% crit damage, which can play a big part to maxing out crit damage for WL(bored from gaia is a perfect example for very good built WL) a WL can also use the lvl65 2-hand sword(which gives an anti-stun proc).

Sharpshooters in 70 arena will use 65sprite set, or 65 pvp. mostly for the mongoose time boost which give 17-25 seconds of mongoose(anti-stun + 75% evade), Level 70 leech sword, and lvl60 Triple Hit sword, combo'ed with lvl60 Bahado's Hero Gun(+15% Chance to hit 12% Chance of firearm damage +100% for 8 seconds) for proc'ing with the Lvl70 Northland Scion - Scorched Sky(+18% chance to hit 12% Chance to activate weapon ability when attacking Ability: Firearm Attack Speed +50%, Long-Range Hit +45% Lasts for 20 sec) this is scary for a DS, being that a SS built good, and having these gun means +100% damage, 100% hit rate, and maxed firearm attack speed, not to forget they can leech HP, and also lay on Triple hits. so a DS won't be dodging any attacks from a SS with these proc'ed on, and a SS having anti-stun on for so long, can be an issue, for more than 1 reason.-> Paintball effect(prevents shadow slipping, Rooting in place(can make it a range fight, just by keeping you in place). they have the advantage. same as WL, they can use the lvl65 2-hand sword for anti-stun proc, but not many use it.

Darkstalkers in 70 arena i seen use lvl70sword(leech sword), level 70 bow(+20% evade), lvl65 yellow sword, level65 pvp set, or lvl70 sprite set. not going to talk about this much.

ArchMage, and Demonologist: high magic damage from both, but not talking about these much, only thing needed to be said here is: Level70 Staff... Anti-stun.

Mystic will use 65 pvp for triple hitting, lvl70 staff for bird form, and sleep hammer(lvl70 yellow), with either lvl60/65 hammers. some will use 70 set as well.

Prophet: might use lvl70 shield(+100% magic crit, and -100% casting speed), or lvl65 shield(randomly removes any debuff), lvl65 staff(+200INT -50% casting speed), Lvl70 staff(anti-stun), lvl70hammer(sleep hammer), for armor lvl65 pvp set, and lvl70 set.


Point being that in lvl70 arena DS is at an disadvantage for so many classes getting Anti-stun, and high hit allowing classes to hit through Evade in pvp. but altogether it's still a good class like all classes all, it all comes down to build, playing style, skill, equips, etc.

@TwistingSparks
you're half right and half wrong, because a 70 DS can be as tanky as a templar. Hard to say who would win in a range fight between a good 70 DS vs a good 70 SS with the DS's tankiness.

can be "evade tanky" but still loses in a range fight to a SS FOR the reason of, a SS wont miss much on DS, mainly when the procs kick in, this i've proven in 1 on 1 fights with DS, inside, and outside of arena at lvl70", i've also witnessed even the best lvl70DS fall prey to all classes in arena, but i'm not knocking the good ability DS have, b/c those same DS goes back playing "smart" to get their kill. again "the good DS players" DS have very high evade which is good against, all classes except Bird-Mystics, Wizards, Demons(reason being magic attacks don't really miss much, and these 3 classes can enter, and maintain the blind spot that DS/SS/WL have) Temps, and SS(outrageous Hit rate) Hit rate is measured by Percent, while Evade is not. therefor Hit Rate is superior to Evade. DS might be able to take some damage, but the defense wont last long for them, unlike how WL, and Temps can take damage, that's where the evade comes in, all classes Except for DS under 80(lvl80 yellow set for DS gives anti-stun proc) will fall prey for classes other than them having anti, the 5 classes i named above do have anti-stun, so a DS runs out and charge, most SS when see-able keeps evade buffs(using SS as an example b/c they don't have a none-stop anti-stun), and alternate evade buff, b/c that charge isn't 100% hit, if you miss that charge, or hit while the anti-stun(quick reflex/Mongoose reflex), your screw, close range stun, then weasle dodge, enhance power shot(paintball effect) to prevent shadow slip, rooting skills, shocking shot for stun, and it's game over for a DS...

Im not talking about evade, im talking about physically tanky.

TwistingSparks wrote:

"evade tanky"

lol.. i don't think you're aware how insanely tanky a DS can be with the physical nullifier set build along with a pro competitive user in a 70 arena.

full perservering 70 orange set= -50% crit dmg taken, -20% phys dmg
reflex response 4 = -12% dmg
premo 4 = -23% crit, -45% crit dmg
deadly dodger AT = -5% crit
70 yellow bow = -45% crit dmg
cape with perservering? = -10% crit dmg

so right there at 70 you have a total base of:

-32% phys dmg taken
-27% crit
-140-150% crit dmg taken

let's add cs greater defense pot (-16%), elsaland pot (-2%) as well

increased to:

-50% phys dmg taken now

sprite head costume, body anyone? another -10%, -12%

now summing up to:

-72% phys dmg taken

High evade, respectable DPS, while having an insane amount of -phys dmg, crit dmg taken.. how can you harm this DS build?

Beyond 71, they even get way tankier boosting the dmg reduction thanks to the Mythics (-10% phys dmg), elsaland pot (-4%), HP + def mythics.. u CANNOT kill this DS with SS.