The awakened amors are awesome, but I really don't think Tanks with their 100 eva, 50 block and 50% def are "a little too weak" and require a buff.

Reading the forum boards over there, the reason that they buffed the tanks was because the playstyle there pretty much did just say tanks weren't necessary.
Yes, over on FNO they don't even bother to have tanks for dungeons. With enough dps they were able to just steamroll over all the bosses. Additionally, many of the DPSs easily are able to get 40k, 50k attack, some even up to 60k. Meanwhile tanks with a shield are at a measly 30k and unable to hold aggro for more than 2,3 seconds before losing it.
However, it's not like they're completely useless. Tanks are still viable for running dungeons, just good tanks are hard to come by. There are tanks, and there are good tanks.

X.x must...get..that...mage armor...

koager wrote:

Additionally, many of the DPSs easily are able to get 40k, 50k attack, some even up to 60k.

There are people with 40k+ p. atk/m. atk even at the level 65 cap, however as far as I know this is very difficult to obtain without being stinking rich. And, unless you pay for lots of AP, it's very hard to get that much gold.

So I can only wonder, how is it that they're easily able to get it that high 5 levels later?

As of now I have about 17k base m. atk, because my weapon is not the awakened +10 with 6 lv3 gems and a lv63 enchant that so many seem to have. Perhaps I could have increased it a bit if I went for Galaxy over Ishtar, but I doubt it would make a huge difference. I honestly can't figure out how I'm supposed to get it even as far as 30k. After all, even if I got the aforementioned extremely expensive weapon and the Galaxy set, it shouldn't end up being at that level. It would probably be about 25k, maybe.

In my experience with the magic dps classes, 90% of your matk is obtained through your staff (or other weapon of choice), and the other 10% comes from your base int (from armor, legendary achievements, and other varying factors).

Even at lvl 60, it was possible to obtain 35k+ matk if you had a +10 lvl 60 staff. With the added bonus to base matk lvl 65 staves and esp. Awakening staves give, it shouldn't be hard to reach 40k+ matk if you have on at +10 (well aside from getting the staff and getting it to +10 lol).

Keep in mind that there are matk proc's too. I once saw a player with enough of them to get up to 20k matk solely from procs.

koager wrote:

Reading the forum boards over there, the reason that they buffed the tanks was because the playstyle there pretty much did just say tanks weren't necessary. Yes, over on FNO they don't even bother to have tanks for dungeons. With enough dps they were able to just steamroll over all the bosses. Additionally, many of the DPSs easily are able to get 40k, 50k attack, some even up to 60k. Meanwhile tanks with a shield are at a measly 30k and unable to hold aggro for more than 2,3 seconds before losing it. However, it's not like they're completely useless. Tanks are still viable for running dungeons, just good tanks are hard to come by. There are tanks, and there are good tanks.

that sounds like a malice problem, I don't see how buffing the tanks' survivability will help in the sitation you explain in your post. :s

raedrin wrote:

In my experience with the magic dps classes, 90% of your matk is obtained through your staff (or other weapon of choice), and the other 10% comes from your base int (from armor, legendary achievements, and other varying factors). Even at lvl 60, it was possible to obtain 35k+ matk if you had a +10 lvl 60 staff. With the added bonus to base matk lvl 65 staves and esp. Awakening staves give, it shouldn't be hard to reach 40k+ matk if you have on at +10 (well aside from getting the staff and getting it to +10 lol). Keep in mind that there are matk proc's too. I once saw a player with enough of them to get up to 20k matk solely from procs.

That's what I had heard, but an awakened +10 staff seems to give something like 22k or 23k m. atk all in all. So even if you take into account things like class score, int, talents, etc. I think it might be hard to get to 30k. That's why I really don't understand... There must be something I'm missing here, I guess.

ABUSELV wrote:

that sounds like a malice problem, I don't see how buffing the tanks' survivability will help in the sitation you explain in your post. :s

According to Koager, the situation has changed to the point where there would be no logical reason to use a tank class unless you just think it's fun. So I think that giving bonuses out like this survivability increase and Dragon Knight are just ways to say "hey, don't forget about the tanks."

The thing is, even before the lv70 cap, we're already at the point where it just isn't enough if you want to focus mainly on survivability as a tank, because there are a bunch of incredibly powerful DPS running around that will take aggro from you in a matter of 1-2 seconds. The old method of running dungeons is for a tank to focus on surviving long enough for the DPS to kill the mobs. But now, that's becoming less necessary.

Thinking about it this way, I can definitely see why the tank classes would be considered extraneous in the future. You can do dungeon runs much faster if you just kill everything before it can do much damage.

However, even in that situation it wouldn't be hard to imagine that there would be plenty of situations where it would be nice if you had a class that is basically a more durable DPS, that specializes in keeping aggro off of the more fragile ones. That's where tanks come in, I think.

And the new update does make it easier for tanks to reach that goal, believe it or not. Dragon Knight is a class that makes it more viable to be a Parry tank, for example. This would allow you to forgo shields and focus more on DPS, and still take hits well enough.

ABUSELV wrote:

koager wrote: Reading the forum boards over there, the reason that they buffed the tanks was because the playstyle there pretty much did just say tanks weren't necessary. Yes, over on FNO they don't even bother to have tanks for dungeons. With enough dps they were able to just steamroll over all the bosses. Additionally, many of the DPSs easily are able to get 40k, 50k attack, some even up to 60k. Meanwhile tanks with a shield are at a measly 30k and unable to hold aggro for more than 2,3 seconds before losing it. However, it's not like they're completely useless. Tanks are still viable for running dungeons, just good tanks are hard to come by. There are tanks, and there are good tanks.   that sounds like a malice problem, I don't see how buffing the tanks' survivability will help in the sitation you explain in your post. :s

It's buffing a parry tank's survivability.
2 handed weapon = more malice.

Cer1s wrote:

raedrin wrote: In my experience with the magic dps classes, 90% of your matk is obtained through your staff (or other weapon of choice), and the other 10% comes from your base int (from armor, legendary achievements, and other varying factors). Even at lvl 60, it was possible to obtain 35k+ matk if you had a +10 lvl 60 staff. With the added bonus to base matk lvl 65 staves and esp. Awakening staves give, it shouldn't be hard to reach 40k+ matk if you have on at +10 (well aside from getting the staff and getting it to +10 lol). Keep in mind that there are matk proc's too. I once saw a player with enough of them to get up to 20k matk solely from procs.   That's what I had heard, but an awakened +10 staff seems to give something like 22k or 23k m. atk all in all. So even if you take into account things like class score, int, talents, etc. I think it might be hard to get to 30k. That's why I really don't understand... There must be something I'm missing here, I guess.

There are a lot of multipliers that come into play beyond the base stats. As of now it's possible to reach 53k base M-ATK with what's available in EE currently (I don't think anyone's done it, I'm just saying it's possible if given enough gold). Though I don't know where koager got 60k (base) M-ATK, unless he meant including all the buffs people normally get in TW, in which case that's possible even now, seeing as how the level 70 weapons don't give a boost at all compared to 65 awakened ones.

I'd imagine there are a lot more OP geared players in the TW server as well. Based on what I hear, they have a higher population, stereotypically more dedicated players, and cheaper rates on Safety Stones, etc.

AmeriQQan wrote:

Cer1s wrote: raedrin wrote: In my experience with the magic dps classes, 90% of your matk is obtained through your staff (or other weapon of choice), and the other 10% comes from your base int (from armor, legendary achievements, and other varying factors). Even at lvl 60, it was possible to obtain 35k+ matk if you had a +10 lvl 60 staff. With the added bonus to base matk lvl 65 staves and esp. Awakening staves give, it shouldn't be hard to reach 40k+ matk if you have on at +10 (well aside from getting the staff and getting it to +10 lol). Keep in mind that there are matk proc's too. I once saw a player with enough of them to get up to 20k matk solely from procs.   That's what I had heard, but an awakened +10 staff seems to give something like 22k or 23k m. atk all in all. So even if you take into account things like class score, int, talents, etc. I think it might be hard to get to 30k. That's why I really don't understand... There must be something I'm missing here, I guess.   There are a lot of multipliers that come into play beyond the base stats. As of now it's possible to reach 53k base M-ATK with what's available in EE currently (I don't think anyone's done it, I'm just saying it's possible if given enough gold). Though I don't know where koager got 60k (base) M-ATK, unless he meant including all the buffs people normally get in TW, in which case that's possible even now, seeing as how the level 70 weapons don't give a boost at all compared to 65 awakened ones. I'd imagine there are a lot more OP geared players in the TW server as well. Based on what I hear, they have a higher population, stereotypically more dedicated players, and cheaper rates on Safety Stones, etc.

Just to clarify, these are the multipliers you can get to increase your M-ATK:

Legendary achievements 1-65 for Staff = +15% staff m-atk
Mage Staff M-Atk KP = up to +20% staff m-atk
Fire Meteor = +5% m-atk
Ranged class certificate combo (4x green certificates) = +5% m-atk
Apostle Trait = +5% m-atk and +10% int
Legendary achievements for farming (or mining, I'm not sure) = +10% int
Cleric + Mage INT certificates = + 30% int
2x purple certificates = +2% int

Add everything to your set bonuses (Moonlight is better if you want to go full m-atk, Ishtar is better if you want to have a reliable cast spd at all times) and you can get over 50k without much work.

Also, you can get a party buff (Private Party) that gives you +5% m-atk, cleric/shaman/couple buffs for INT and the Mana Explosion Lv4 (+1700~ m-atk) and Magician Lv2 (+5% m-atk) potions.

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On a side note, tanks are already useless if you manage to make a party full of OP people. You can just kill every 65 trial boss in less than 30 seconds, even less than 20 sometimes.