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gzfIchi

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PostedMay 10, 2012 4:30 pm

Let's Discuss GunZ's future: Anti-Lead

The Problem: Private Servers & Anti-Lead
Private servers plague several online games by sucking away players from the original game. Private servers were not a threat to the official GunZ until a certain server, which will be referred to as HG, developed a feature called Anti-Lead.

At first, many players, including me, were skeptical of the Anti-Lead feature. Our concerns included

*Leading is a skill and is embedded deeply into the gameplay
*Getting hit behind walls at higher pings
*The mechanics of melee weapons and possible negative effects

I address all 3 concerns in a different post which I will quote here:

 
There seems to be a lot of misconceptions being thrown around in this thread.

It comes down to whether or not you want to emulate as close as possible how gameplay feels on the original server.

I have a feeling most of the people who didn't move to anti-lead servers either didn't know about it, don't understand the changes and feel cheated, or found out they weren't able to compete on that playing field. Before anti-lead was out I never saw anyone complain about being low ping to someone. Playing against someone with single digit ping was the best experience on GunZ. Fights were quick and decisive, a single miss or mistake was less forgiving. Hunting down your single digit ping enemy in a 4v4 was chaotic but enjoyable.

In a straight comparison, aiming on an anti-lead server is "easier" than aiming on a lead server. Our lead server is the latency equivalent of projectile travel times. Projectile travel times would be like the rocket launcher in GunZ, the rocket has actual travel time to reach its destination. It is important though, to realize lead servers had a lot of artificial difficulty with leading. A few examples of artificial difficulty


*Ping is not always stable. This could be due to a bad connection or purposeful abuse. If someone's ping spikes they may seem to take more hits than normal.

*Managing players of different ping. If two players have drastically different ping, your shots have to be planned acoordingly.


Scenario 1: Player 1 has high ping and is playing aggressive trying to melee you while Player 2 has low ping and is shooting at you from mid range. Ideally you would shoot player 1 and put distance between yourself and player 2. However, due to player 1's high and possibly unstable ping, it is actually a better to choice to avoid player 1's melee threat and shoot at player 2.

Scenario 2: There are now 4 players on the enemy team with varying ping. You must match a ping to their name each time you see someone. This scenario can branch out but I want to keep it simple. You must now lead 4 players differently. You have to keep track of where the low ping enemies are, because they are the ones most likely to be shooting at you. "Focusing" players has a different meaning in GunZ. In other shooters, you focus fire enemies who are out of position or are an immediate threat due to their position. In GunZ, sometimes shooting at buddy with 200 ping and spiking just isn't plausible even when he's up your *** with his katana.


There are a bunch of other scenarios I could come up with, but these two get my point across. Leading shots takes more "skill" than aiming straight on. Having to manage enemies of different pings and plan accordingly for team games is artificial difficulty.

The problem only gets worse when you realize that people like to wear the same armor set as their teammates. Of course, that isn't a huge problem because you can still tell them apart by their names. Unless they have similar names. TWIN and TWLN look the same if TWLN uses a lower case L. What about names that are just similar? Superman and Suparmen? Demonslayer and Dernunstajer? Poop and Boob? Where do you draw the line for similar names? At a glance, they throw people off in game. You can disqualify players from using similar names in official tournaments but are you going to ban them when they do it in regular games? Imagine the previous scenario except with 4 players with 20, 60, 100, and 140 ping named TWIIN, TWIlN, TWlIN, and TWllN.

*Lag, potshotting, and backpeddling. Potshotting and backpeddling are valid and useful tactics ingame. You could argue that its imbalanced or overpowered but that is because the popular game mode in GunZ is team deathmatch. That is off topic though and I'll stick with what I was going with.

When two players with low ping play each other, backpeddling has a smaller effect on the outcome. When two players with high ping play each other, the winner is usually the player who can backpeddle and bait their opponent more. This isn't a baseless conclusion either, its game theory(snort; pushes thick glasses to face; eats cheeto).

This example is a bit hard to explain in words and is easier to show with pictures. If someone requests it, I will draw a **** mspaint diagram.


For simplicity, I am using time in seconds instead of ms, assuming dashes take about 1 second to complete, and assuming both Tom and Bob are of equal skill with perfect aim. Tom and Bob have a delay of 1s to each other. They are both using standard 1 v 1 gear. At time 0, both players are standing still 4 dash lengths (DL) apart. If both players move in parallel, that is, strafing side to side, there is no issue. That isn't the case though. At time 1s, Tom shoots then dashes backwards. Bob shoots then dashes forwards. It takes 1 second for their shot to register on each others screen. At time 2s, Tom's shot hits Bob. The distance Tom's shot travels to reach Bob is 3 DL because Bob dashed forward. Bob's shot hits Tom. The distance Bob's shot travels to reach Tom is 5 DL because Tom dashed backwards. Keep in mind that distance matters in a fight with shotguns because shotgun spread differs with distance. At first it doesn't seem to make sense. Then you realize it does because of how latency works. The shot originates from the location at time = 1 but reaches the opponent at time = 2.


You can call it skill but I'll add on that it's a broken game mechanic. Many players don't know how this works so they conclude "potshot and backpeddle is lame" without knowing the details. In a 1v1, 99% of the time it is disadvantageous to dash forward. 99% of the time it is advantageous to dash backwards.

Potshotting works the same way. You can't lead someone going behind an object. You have to prefire so you hit them when they come out. This is assuming the object is a pillar. If someone potshots and backpedals, they become even harder to fight in a straight 1v1.

***


Anti-lead's flaws


*Behind-the-wall shots happen at very high pings but its balanced out better on anti-lead than lead. The scenario with Tom and Bob is no longer valid in anti-lead because even though it takes a second for Bob's client to register Tom's shot, Bob's position at time = 2 is irrelevant to the equation. It gets a bit complicated when you consider two moving players at high ping because they don't see the exact same game. You can see what I mean by comparing two replays of the same game by two different players with varying pings to each other and anyone else in game.

**Side note**
On lead servers there used to be a very popular strategy involving players from different locations. Essentially, the higher ping players play more aggressively and force close combat fights. They are hard to lead and recoil due to their high ping. It wasn't a game breaking strategy, it was definitely beatable but the fact stands that such a strategy should not exist. A good player who already knew how to be a threat with aggressive movements and positioning was even more effective with high ping. On anti-lead, you can't designate your high ping teammate as the "tanker" because he's just as easy to hit as anyone else.

*The sword aspect of anti-lead is an important thing to consider. I think, for balancing purposes, all melee attacks should still have to be lead. It may complicate things but unless there is a range limit we are going to see long range slashes, which are a huge problem. Back when anti-lead was in its testing phase, it was not uncommon to see a player lagging and slashing people from across the map. The worst part was that since getting slashed causes your character to "flinch" you could get flinched when you thought you avoided the slash. I think most sword enthusiasts will agree that they prefer slashing and blocking to be lead than anti-lead.  


The Solution: Private Servers & Anti-Lead

Shut down private servers and adopt Anti-Lead. It may not be possible to pursue legal action against these private servers, but adopting Anti-Lead should retake much of the player base.



The Discussion: Anti-Lead

After you have read the long paragraphs above, please comment and communicate what your feelings on anti-lead are. My stance, quick and to the point, is GunZ should go with anti-lead. I want to hear everybody's input, new and old, active or retired. I will do my best to explain and defend my stance as replies come in.
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Divide6

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:11 pm
All I'm going to say is that I'm so stoked and can't wait for anti-lead. Although I truly do love leading. I guess I'm disguising my love for anti-lead for the want of reviving Gunz. So my suggestion would be to also Keep Lead in the game. Have 2 different Channels for Anti-lead and lead.

Also, Yea, been saying it before and will say it more! Shut down Private servers! They are sucking the community away with their anti-lead. Aeria must compete + shut them down!

KamiKarma

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:12 pm
For everyone:

Don't expect Anti-lead 100%. Just saying...

The GM's didn't announce it or talked about it. So just wait..

Zaebja

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:20 pm
Divide6 wrote:
Shut down Private servers! They are sucking the community away with their anti-lead. Aeria must compete + shut them down!  


They are working on it Smile

IGN: Zaebja(WH) FK - Curaja(ME) FK | Whipper PvP & PvE Guide

ijjiMainlie

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:23 pm
I dont want anti lead. Evil or Very Mad

Vasima

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:27 pm
If they do, at any point (probably a long time away if ever) add it, if they touch swords then I'm gone on the spot. Otherwise it only indirectly affects me so w/e.

- With clear eyes, Seek knowledge and grow without limits -

ijjiMainlie

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:29 pm
Vasima wrote:
If they do, at any point (probably a long time away if ever) add it, if they touch swords then I'm gone on the spot. Otherwise it only indirectly affects me so w/e.  


Agreed ^

Zaebja

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PostedMay 10, 2012 5:30 pm
Dat MAIET Latino Server no-lead is grodie with swords.

IGN: Zaebja(WH) FK - Curaja(ME) FK | Whipper PvP & PvE Guide

gzfIchi

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PostedMay 10, 2012 7:46 pm
Divide6 wrote:
All I'm going to say is that I'm so stoked and can't wait for anti-lead. Although I truly do love leading. I guess I'm disguising my love for anti-lead for the want of reviving Gunz. So my suggestion would be to also Keep Lead in the game. Have 2 different Channels for Anti-lead and lead.

Also, Yea, been saying it before and will say it more! Shut down Private servers! They are sucking the community away with their anti-lead. Aeria must compete + shut them down!  


Having a "Lead" Channel is fine but not the point I am trying to make.

Anti-Lead should have been packaged with the game since the beginning. Ijji GunZ served as a host to several large regions much larger than just South Korea. In South Korea, many players had low ping to each other so leading wasn't always an issue. In Ijji GunZ, we had players from all around North America, South America, Europe, Asia, and Australia. It just was not a good idea to not code it in.

This means: clan wars, tournaments, default setting in public games are all set to Anti-Lead.

Sometimes shutting down private servers isn't possible for whatever reasons. It then becomes a question of, "Why do players play on private servers?" or more specifically, "Why did a large chunk of the top skill bracket of players move into private servers?" It's a bad sign when your veteran players with several years under their belt move to private servers.

Vasima wrote:
If they do, at any point (probably a long time away if ever) add it, if they touch swords then I'm gone on the spot. Otherwise it only indirectly affects me so w/e.  


I mentioned that in the first post. Melee mechanics should be kept "lead" and only guns will be "anti-lead". The other alternative to this is what HG did in its later stages. Melee mechanics were Anti-Lead but they had some kind of distance check to prevent long range slashes and flinches. I prefer the Lead system for melee mechanics than the Anti-Lead with Distance Checks.

ijjiMainlie wrote:
I dont want anti lead. Evil or Very Mad  


Please expand on why so I can understand. My goal here is to convince you and other players that Anti-Lead is the way GunZ should be.

freaky5000

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PostedMay 11, 2012 2:30 am
I don't know how these private servers are still up, It's blatently illegal, aeria/maiet should have no problems shutting it down.
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