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StrykerIam

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StrykerIam
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PostedOct 01, 2011 1:39 am

Tanking Differences Between Knight And Warrior

The reasons why I choose either at different situations
It seems that in every game, I end up playing a tank class/character just due to the fact that, hey let's face it, good tanks are hard to come by. Ever since I SAW the Eden Eternal video, I knew I wanted to be a tank. So working my little butt off killing mushrooms and yaks and jellyfish and whatever else got in the way as a warrior till 25, I anticipated the Knight class.

Now here I am with my progress at level 50 character and level 50 Knight versus (Don't Laugh) level 36 Warrior. I've been tanking as a knight ever since 25 and I've enjoyed it so much. But now at 50, and having tanked trial after trial after trial, I've come to see some of the drawbacks of knight tanking. There is always the debate as to what "build" you are heading into. Whether it be evasion or block rate. I have the level 48 Steel Eye set all +4 and a few minor enchants for evasion using Death Sender and on a what seems like and endless quest for the Holy Grail(Light Deserter) from Kasin.

Stats wise as a Knight at level 50 are as follows:
HP - 8845 (Only!)
Def - 6835
Evasion - 578.28 (With Kenny's Trophy and Anderli's Eye Trophy)
Agility - 363

Being level 50, and looking at my gear, I'm actually decently geared and "scrolled" but the real implementation of that gear is not to the expectation. I have 15 points into Noble Knowledge (HP) and to only have 8845 HP seems like a slap in the face of a tank(I also have 10 points into evasion and another 5 in malice, I was thinking of maxing out the HP talent but that remains to be seen). Another slap is the weak Def that I have with a +4 Steel Eye set and some random level 50 blue shield I've picked up. Granted in trials a bard's SoI is what makes the difference between life and death for me. But that's not the point here. The point is that even though the Knight class is technically an "evasion" tank, I don't see it. It doesn't get implemented well. Sure I can break 1300 evasion with SoI + Focus + Elegant but what good is all that evasion if it can and will literally take 2 hits from mobs to kill me due to both lack of HP and Def.

And yes, I know what some of you are thinking "Just get FDR and a PSR" Yeah sometimes things are NOT that easy, or affordable. As someone else mentioned in another tanking thread, tanks really DO dish out the big bucks for our gear.

Here's my "Warrior" portion of this thread. As I stated, my warrior is ONLY level 36 But even at that level, there are significant difference in stats.

HP - 8601
Def - 7406 + 1356 from Metal Buster (@ level 36) = 8762 (almost the 50% reduction)
Evasion - 502.20

I don't know how much Def Metal Buster gives at level 50 but seeing as how my Warrior is 14 levels below my Knight, the difference in Def is truly astounding. Granted a warrior has the privilege of having Knowledge Points into Def while a Knight doesn't. And yes, I do have points into that. Granted my warrior tree is kind of screwed up from being a noob in the low levels and not knowing what the heck I was doing with that xD BUT still!

My certificates don't change between knight and warrior either, I've kept them the same. Standard tank stuff: Evasion, Def, Wisdom, Malice. The sort.

Here is my ACTUAL point. Tanking Ulta Trial as a Knight sure holding aggro on multiple mobs is EASIER but it's also riskier in a way. As I said before, as long as I have SoI from a bard up, I'm good (sort of). The reason I say sort of is because I am still seriously lacking health. Although this changes whenever I put in some HP trophies instead of my agility ones, IE: Quiller's Finger Bone (Which I am actually using more often now on Knight for that defense proc as a "just in case the bard doesn't have SoI up, I better hope my trophy procs") and Miller's Nucleus Piece. I know these aren't "high end" trophies but we all know the drop rate and chances of getting ANY in a trial (Currently tearing down forests and whale hunting for Tiamat's trophy in Ulta and/or Axe's Trophy in Vileshark)

Tanking as a warrior in Ulta I am way more comfortable knowing I have that Def cushion, even though my health is actually still pretty low. That's where you beautiful clerics come in to bump be close to 10k HP. Oh and I forgot about Sense of Survival which gives 459 HP at level 36. You're probably thinking what everybody else is "YOU CAN'T TANK ULTA AT THAT LEVEL!!11!one" Believe me, I've heard it plenty, and yes, yes I can, and I have and I do. The only reason I am doing so though, is to get that warrior to level 50 so I can get that 10% DEF certificate and use it on my Knight. Still, something just doesn't really fit when I am able to tank a trial with a level difference of such extent, and comfortably too. You'd think that malice would be an issue but I'm a pretty competent tank and know how to play. Yes, I did just say that.

So... any tips, hints, suggestions, criticism, stfu's, feedback, or just conversation?

(I know things will probably get easier once Holy Light Deserter, PSR, FDR and level 55 are achieved but hey, that's quite some time away)

Wink
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woodyfly

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PostedOct 01, 2011 4:39 am
At end game where you can cap defense with a knight, defense becomes negligent and therefore knight is better.

A knight sitting at 1.2k+ base eva can easily hit 100% evasion and 50% damage reduction and you don't really need exceptional gear.

StrykerIam

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PostedOct 01, 2011 12:24 pm
I know that the Def cap is 50% but at 9K armor, that is still very minimal crit reduction. And in that case, technically the def cap is almost still not a cap. Unless I missed out somewhere as to there being a critical cap, then I will continue to assume that going for more Def is never a bad thing.

Now my point was though that even being an evasion tank, knights just seem to be a tank class in which you hope you either don't get hit or that when you do, it's not an amount that will be an "OHCRUD O_O" moment.

tomehliu

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PostedOct 01, 2011 5:51 pm
This is just my opinion on endgame tanking. Tanking as knight with endgame gear since that only matters.



First one is my stats unbuffed, second one is with m own buffs, third one is every proc/buff possible

Third one is how I tank in 8man trials, I pull mobs in the whole map and let my party aoe them. That's why I think Knight is a better tank than Warrior. Because Knights have skills that support my evasion(focus and elegance).
Seriously if I can cap 50% defense with no shield, only with Song of Illusion then what's the point of warrior defense buff? Sure warriors have better aggro management but if you actually know how to build up aggro as knight, you can do the same or even better.

just my 2cents

Rowellbrah

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PostedOct 02, 2011 6:52 am
as a player tht mains warrior, i also agree knights make a better tank. eva knights put less stress on healers and can do aoe dmg better than warriors. for bosses the class dsnt really matter, as long as you have decent gear and know how to deal with tht particular boss, it is somewhat safer for the party with warrior though since we have 3 instant agro skills and a rush incase a DPS or healer steals agro

imo warriors jst make tanking easier agro-wise. + horns look cool

aaand if ur an AP player it dsnt matter, u can get haxxed anything on both classes lol

Yesterday~

Eviil_

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PostedOct 02, 2011 6:57 am
I just want to point something out, sure EVA knights are great but do you see his pictures? he also has some nice def. I don't want to see a 1800-2000 eva knight with only 5000def, that is not gonna cut it. You have to be able to at least take a hit or two.

kiddo150

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PostedOct 02, 2011 7:59 am
tomehliu wrote:
This is just my opinion on endgame tanking. Tanking as knight with endgame gear since that only matters.



First one is my stats unbuffed, second one is with m own buffs, third one is every proc/buff possible

Third one is how I tank in 8man trials, I pull mobs in the whole map and let my party aoe them. That's why I think Knight is a better tank than Warrior. Because Knights have skills that support my evasion(focus and elegance).
Seriously if I can cap 50% defense with no shield, only with Song of Illusion then what's the point of warrior defense buff? Sure warriors have better aggro management but if you actually know how to build up aggro as knight, you can do the same or even better.

just my 2cents  


Maybe you forgot, but 100% EVA doesn't mean you'll avoid every single attack. This is because mobs have stats just like us players, which includes ACC and whatever else contributes to that.

VonLoewe

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PostedOct 02, 2011 1:10 pm
kiddo150 wrote:
tomehliu wrote:
This is just my opinion on endgame tanking. Tanking as knight with endgame gear since that only matters.



First one is my stats unbuffed, second one is with m own buffs, third one is every proc/buff possible

Third one is how I tank in 8man trials, I pull mobs in the whole map and let my party aoe them. That's why I think Knight is a better tank than Warrior. Because Knights have skills that support my evasion(focus and elegance).
Seriously if I can cap 50% defense with no shield, only with Song of Illusion then what's the point of warrior defense buff? Sure warriors have better aggro management but if you actually know how to build up aggro as knight, you can do the same or even better.

just my 2cents  


Maybe you forgot, but 100% EVA doesn't mean you'll avoid every single attack. This is because mobs have stats just like us players, which includes ACC and whatever else contributes to that.  


Yeah, if you just barely reach 100% eva at 1.9k you will still get hit plenty by mobs due to accuracy. But at 3k (sure that's an ideal moment, but w/e) no mobs accuracy is high enough to hit you. Except of course, a boss with accuracy buff. But either way, and eva knight isn't counting on evading every single attack. They still have plenty defense to let them take hits here and there, and the polar sunset + FDR combo to keep them at full health. That's why healers love them: they don't need to spam cure like they do warriors.

tomehliu

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PostedOct 02, 2011 1:15 pm
kiddo150 wrote:
tomehliu wrote:
This is just my opinion on endgame tanking. Tanking as knight with endgame gear since that only matters.



First one is my stats unbuffed, second one is with m own buffs, third one is every proc/buff possible

Third one is how I tank in 8man trials, I pull mobs in the whole map and let my party aoe them. That's why I think Knight is a better tank than Warrior. Because Knights have skills that support my evasion(focus and elegance).
Seriously if I can cap 50% defense with no shield, only with Song of Illusion then what's the point of warrior defense buff? Sure warriors have better aggro management but if you actually know how to build up aggro as knight, you can do the same or even better.

just my 2cents  


Maybe you forgot, but 100% EVA doesn't mean you'll avoid every single attack. This is because mobs have stats just like us players, which includes ACC and whatever else contributes to that.  


Hmmm, where did I say anything about avoiding every single attack? I just said I pulled the whole map. Even if you take monster acc into account. I'd have around 90% eva, I have healers to outheal that dmg.

I don't know if you are capped at 55 but here's my average baltaroi core trial run as eva knight.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yD60CsS0VyI

dawiichan

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PostedOct 02, 2011 2:08 pm
Only thing is that EVA isn't needed for tanking any endgame. You can tank tasos, venin and shale with a base of 35% eva(unbuffed). Hopefully lvl 60 trials add some type of challenge in tanking.

Shale w/ 30% base eva~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F-9_K8nkUfE&feature=channel_video_title
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