Thanks for the kind words, all, glad you find it useful.

And yes, I omitted Vitality Control intentionally.

nicely done alb... only 1 place that had me raising my eyebrow a bit... armor break 2

Lv.: 56/78/88 SP: 213/300/400 = 913 MP: 100/150/200 Effect (cumulative): 150/200/250 Duration: 35 secs Great skill. Requires Armour Break lv. 5 to learn. Like so many other templar abilities, the animation is drawn out, making it a little unwieldy in PvP but its effect is significant. Used in conjunction with Provoke, it greatly reduces enemies' physical defence.

what seems to confuse me is how the effect is significant. at least at lvl 1 i deal 35-40 dmg more per swing, which isnt much when you considering 2.7k per hit. this is lvl 1 but even lvl 3 doesnt even double the debuff, which would lead me to believe the effect would at most be 80 more dps given a set mob def rate, but bevcause mob defense goes up as the lvls go by but the debuff value does not chance like provoke, thats why i quesiton the effect. are you seeing soemthing that i'm not?

edit: i wanted to address this...

"Partying with Templars who knew how to use their skills properlu can teach more than any guide possibly can" A: there are so little templars, not that easy, so guides are effective. B: 40% of templars know how to use there skills properly. C: 50% of templars are friendly (lowest in game) D: if you are a soloer, guides more helpful with all this in mind, a good guide should cover every aspect of the class. especially such an unpopular one.

for point A: guides can only get you so far. just the same as in real life theory can only get you so far. you can know all the ins and outs of say running a business from a theoretical standpoint but until the rubber meets the road you arent really going to know and udnerstand all the subtlties and nuances of operating a business efficiently. tk is similar in concept, to be a good tk takes time and practice. yes there are few of us; less of a problem now... but the fact remains practice is key.

B: prove you numbers...

C: again prove it. dont pull numbers out of thin air whtout facts to back them

D: TK is not a solo class

GMartin2R wrote:

only 1 place that had me raising my eyebrow a bit... armor break 2

Fair question. In terms of PvP, a drop of 250 in your opponent's defence without any drawback is pretty sweet, at least in my experience. In PvE, it's a skill more suited to big/boss mobs. In a party, and a templar is unquestionably a party support character, when every physical attacker is hitting even 80-100 extra damage (more with Provoke), it adds up. Perhaps I've overstated its effectiveness but that's why I feel it's a useful skill. Thanks for the input and let me know if you're still unconvinced. ;)

are you using lvl 3 then i take it? thats i guess next on my list of skills to max even though i'm not convinced. the overall effect though i guess could be a factor, 80 x 8 = 640 dps. havent used it enough on bosses to really see, but then agian i have lvl 1 atm.

so in your pvp experience, does a drop of 250 really help you that much? i get provoke is a nasty debuff but do you kill that much easier with ab2 on a target than with it not?

Yes, I've got level 3 AB. In PvP, assuming it's set to physical defence, it's like depriving someone of their unmounted pet... every little helps and it's made the difference between winning and losing for me.

so is it a fair assessment that ab2 and wb2 could possibly have been designed as pvp skills and not pve? everything else in the skills upgrade seems to have been primary for pve. only these 2 seem rather weak in pve yet they have an effect in pvp... so you still get the same dmg increase that i'd project based on lvl 1 ab2 in pvp or is the effect more pronounced? if you get say 80 more dmg in pve, does that stay the same or does that increase in pvp?

dragonoa wrote:

Yes, I've got level 3 AB. In PvP, assuming it's set to physical defence, it's like depriving someone of their unmounted pet... every little helps and it's made the difference between winning and losing for me.

Actually I believe that with ab2's use with a horse you will have 450 def left over and with +15 equipment ab2 still won't make much of a difference in pvp and this is not speaking of the other classes that can probably take out us knights more easily such as mages and rogues. In conclusion, ab and ab2 can take a decent chunk of defence, but its more useful for boss monsters as was stated before.

so is it a fair assessment that ab2 and wb2 could possibly have been designed as pvp skills and not pve? everything else in the skills upgrade seems to have been primary for pve. only these 2 seem rather weak in pve yet they have an effect in pvp... so you still get the same dmg increase that i'd project based on lvl 1 ab2 in pvp or is the effect more pronounced? if you get say 80 more dmg in pve, does that stay the same or does that increase in pvp?

Actually, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe ab can be used in conjunction with ab2, not that it would make much of a difference, though.

GMartin2R wrote:

so is it a fair assessment that ab2 and wb2 could possibly have been designed as pvp skills and not pve? everything else in the skills upgrade seems to have been primary for pve. only these 2 seem rather weak in pve yet they have an effect in pvp... so you still get the same dmg increase that i'd project based on lvl 1 ab2 in pvp or is the effect more pronounced? if you get say 80 more dmg in pve, does that stay the same or does that increase in pvp?

I would have to test more thoroughly to determine numbers in PvP for AB 2 and WB 2 but it's entirely possible... I still think AB 2 has its uses in PvE though and WB 2 seems pretty ineffectual across the board. Minor note but MB 2 is purely offensive also and seems to be more PvP-oriented.

Rademyth wrote:

dragonoa wrote: Yes, I've got level 3 AB. In PvP, assuming it's set to physical defence, it's like depriving someone of their unmounted pet... every little helps and it's made the difference between winning and losing for me.   Actually I believe that with ab2's use with a horse you will have 450 def left over and with +15 equipment ab2 still won't make much of a difference in pvp and this is not speaking of the other classes that can probably take out us knights more easily such as mages and rogues. In conclusion, ab and ab2 can take a decent chunk of defence, but its more useful for boss monsters as was stated before.

potentially but i'd like to see what alb gets in the way of dps before making that ascertion for sure.. if he sees an increase of 40 dps... x 15 seconds(ss2) thats -600 hp. 600 hp is a big deal for anyone, relativelyt big for titans but yea... if provoke adds 200 (not sure i'll have to try sometime not using mb2) you're talking an additional 240 per swing x 15 seconds at 1 swing a second... = 3600 hp gone this ontop of what reg hits do. i know provoke is +200 dmg with mb2. and +200 in pve. but mb2 does 12k+ for me in pve and between 1.3 to 1.8k in pvp. which makes me think of a scenario i want to try sometime... and see what happens.

ss1, provoke, ab2, ss2(assuming ss1 has been remedied), reg for 12 seconds, mb2, mb1

if mb2 consistely takes ofer 1k hp i would have 15 seconds or so to take 2-3k hp... maybe?

potentially but i'd like to see what alb gets in the way of dps before making that ascertion for sure.. if he sees an increase of 40 dps... x 15 seconds(ss2) thats -600 hp. 600 hp is a big deal for anyone, relativelyt big for titans but yea... if provoke adds 200 (not sure i'll have to try sometime not using mb2) you're talking an additional 240 per swing x 15 seconds at 1 swing a second... = 3600 hp gone this ontop of what reg hits do. i know provoke is +200 dmg with mb2. and +200 in pve. but mb2 does 12k+ for me in pve and between 1.3 to 1.8k in pvp. which makes me think of a scenario i want to try sometime... and see what happens. ss1, provoke, ab2, ss2(assuming ss1 has been remedied), reg for 12 seconds, mb2, mb1 if mb2 consistely takes ofer 1k hp i would have 15 seconds or so to take 2-3k hp... maybe?

After taking that into consideration, I understand that might be quite possible, but there are still things to take into consideration like special buffs and the such, but most people take the plant to just stun and kill their opponents in PvP, before they can do anything.