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misterdude

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misterdude
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PostedDec 13, 2009 1:16 pm

Live or Die

It is time for Shaiya to make a choice.
Though it contains both suggestions for SonoV to change game mechanics and suggestions for players to act appropriately to better the game, this might be more properly considered a rant and, if so, please feel free to move it to whatever section you feel is appropriate. In the effort to keep it entertaining I'll be a little more colorful with my writing and borrow a page from Avyn's rant, which of course rules them all.

I've been around nearly two years with Shaiya. There used to be hopes for it. There used to be expectations that things would eventually get better as the game matured. Sadly, this has not happened. I've been around for most of Shaiya's US server life and if I stay long enough I may even see its death. But the way things are going, by the time that happens, Shiaya's funeral will not even be worthy of my attendance.

THIS IS SHAIYA!

But what is Shaiya? A game, yes, but what kind of game? It's an MMO, of course, and that means there is a critical component to its success: MULTIPLAYER. Not just that but MASSIVE MULTIPLAYER. This game doesn't work as a single player adventure, you can't do much of anything alone, and even less that is actually fun to do. So my first futile plea to the community is, Grow Up! Treat people with respect, and understand that your very game experience is dependent on the other players. Without them, you fail. Other people are not NPCs. The top guild is not here to farm goddess for you. Nobody owes you anything, and you being too weak to compete doesn't mean you're being oppressed by The Man. Play a...different....server for ten minutes and you'll understand why the community is essential. Without them, you are useless and you quit very soon.



But that's not the point of this thread. Shaiya is an MMO, yes, but what is the point of the game? Grinding? Is this a grinding simulation? Sometimes it feels like it, but no. Grinding is just a means to an end. The end is EXP and levels, the result of which is stat points. Farming? Is this game an economic teaching tool where you run a business and amass gold? Is this Harvest Moon? In the case of Shaiya if it was a teaching tool its lesson would be what not to do. No, farming is a means to an end. The end is gear; the result of which is stat points. Bosses then. It must be boss fights. It's wicked fun to down the dragon*in 4 hours....at 11 p.m.....with work in the morning. Sorry, bosses are fun and mysterious the first few times, but once you figure them out it's just a repetitive chore, a means to an end. The end is gear; the result of which is stat points.

PvE is not the point of the game. Though fun at first, in the end it is more repetitive than Assassin's Creed and half as satisfying when you kill something. Some choose to play PvE exclusively and that's fine but its lifespan is not long at all. Playing Shaiya for PvE is about the same as going to Yankee Stadium just for a hot dog. A waste of both time and money, with satisfaction that lasts for about 5 minutes.

My point. Shaiya was designed and created to be a PvP game. The repetitive uninspired standard grindfest, storyless, PvE simply shows us that. Everything is geared as a means to an end; the end being stat points, the use of which is PvP.

PvP: WHAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE

Believe it or not, the game doesn't end at level 15, nor does it stop at level 30. You were never meant to make a permanent home in Canta and especially not in Proelium. No, like any game it is meant to keep going. Other countries and cultures have no issue with this concept but we Westerners seem to be struggling with basic sense.



Proelium (1-15): This is a low level zone. You are low level, you have low level skills, you are supposed to have low level gear, with low level lapis. And most importantly of all, you are supposed to leave after a reasonably short amount of time as you continue your journey through the game. As I said before, the game does not stop at level 15. This is a zone that is meant to be for newer players and low level (appropriately poorly geared) players to try out PvP and get the first few ranks, in a low level and gear and skill environment. On this point, we have epically failed and destroyed the very essence of the zone.

Canta (20-30): Similar to 1-15 except that it's a mid level zone. The same basic problems are faced as in 1-15. People over-gearing, and staying way too long. The former being the bigger issue here. It is meant to be yet another step on the way through the game and is supposed to be mid level combat with appropriate gear, not uber combat at level 30. Ideally, you're not supposed to be here very long either. The game does not stop at level 30.

D-Water (1-60): First, it's not really 1 to 60. Though any level can enter the map, the PvE content is for the mid high 30s and up, and the PvP is 50+, the higher the better of course. Here is where everything should go. The game does end at level 60. Gear is the best in the game. It has the least amount of native problems. It doesn't suffer from the same potentially destructive issues the other zones face. The only issue is that people have to level up and come play, and they have thus far, as a whole, said "No."

HOW TO DESTROY YOUR GAME IN 7 EASY STEPS

Sneak into parents bedroom. Take credit card out of purse. Buy AP. Over-gear your noob character. Disrupt entire fabric of game. Feel sense of empowerment. Find new game. Repeat.



The state of the game as it currently is, is not good. The economy is like Jabba the Hut on a teeter totter with Bilbo Baggins, and the wreckage of our PvP zones leaves a smoldering ash in the air so thick you can barely see your skill bars. We play with no sense of responsibility and no thought given to what is best for the game and community. And remember futile plea number one? If the community fails, you fail. We act like parasites that don't seem to care what destruction we leave in our wake, not realizing, or not caring, that said destruction will kill us as well.

Proelium (1-15): You spend hundreds of dollars and sell AP. Or you get a high level character and use it to farm the uber high level gear. You then take said gear and dump it onto a level 15 noob. That's right, your level 15 is a noob, can't even kill a mob that the weakest level 50 NM character can take down in one shot. You then use said over-powered gear to kill farm those with lesser gear. And/or you spend said hundreds of dollars on AP and use it to buy Nostrums that add so many stats to your low level character you become statistically unkillable by the opposition. Congrats, you have no skill. But that's not even the big point.

This zone is meant for those trying to actually play 1-15 as it is intended, with low level appropriate resources, and new players trying to get a feel for PvP. You don't care, you don't even understand the true point of PvP, you just want more rank for more stat points and you want it as fast as possible. You sir, or madam, have failed. PvP is the point of the game, it's not meant as a simple stat boosting side quest. You're not supposed to farm easy targets to boost stats. You're supposed to actually fight and have fun on more balanced ground where you don't simply buy your kills with money or overpowered gear. Why are you even playing the game when you treat the very core of it like a roll of toilet paper; to be used up and thrown away. PvP is the end, not the means to more stat points. It's the use for your stat points.

1-15 has been turned into the same type of zone that D-water is meant to be. "Be uber or die" is the motto. That is not what Proelium is supposed to be. If that's your playstyle, get to D-Water and prove that you're worth your rank. And no, we're not impressed that you killed 50 thousand people who don't have the strength to fight back in 1-15. You simply can't handle the competition you would face from the uber players that had the fortitude to make level 60 or near it. In short, why don't you pick on someone your own size and restore Proelium to the starter temporary zone it is meant to be? We know the answer, you don't have to say it.

Canta (20-30): Again similar story, maybe to a slightly lesser degree. Nos perhaps not such an issue here but more slots means more potential for inappropriate gear to be made. I won't repeat everything I've already said. Again if you want to make maxed out uber gear and feel powerful, get your butt to D-Water, if you think you can handle it. Which you probably can't.

D-Water (1-60): This is naturally the place everyone should end up. Nos is a non-issue. Uber gear is a non issue because this is the appropriate place for it. Skills further balance things as it doesn't matter how much HP you have when you get hit with Absolute attack and Pantera's Vision, or Eraser. Tactics, teamwork, hard work, skill, proper builds, everything that brings a true sense of accomplishment and prestige is what makes success here. It sound like the proper zone for PvP but the problem is, as I said, us Westerners got stuck, and the majority never makes it to D-Water. The rest of us simply look at Youtube videos from VN Shaiya and long for what could have been if the community didn't have such a screwed up attitude. Stop farming kills and start earning them, start having fun, start playing the game to its end. 90% of your PvP issues would be solved if you made D-Water your home. The only issue 1-60 has is low population and if you actually leveled up and came out to play that would be solved.

IF YOU CAN'T TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, IT WILL BE TAKEN AWAY

There are solutions to these issues. They are divided into two categories. Each one as unlikely as the other. Forced solutions implemented into the game's programming by SonoV. And player provided solutions caused by people not being ignorant teenagers. As I said, each one as unlikely as the other. But if we did need Big Brother to fix it for us, what could they do?



Thus far we have been enabled to destruction. They've given us the power and we abused it, of course. What else would you expect? Well the game wasn't originally intended for our culture, and the minor changes we've gotten have not changed the core of the game. Perhaps the Asian cultures have managed to make successful choices but we, unfortunately, have not. And so, a viable solution is to remove the possibility to make said destructive choices.

Proelium (1-15): Two words: gear cap. This is supposed to be low level PvP with appropriately low level gear? Then cap the lapis that goes on said gear. Level 3, 2, or 1 only. That should fix it up nicely. You can't remove nos, it's a big part of profits so I'll leave that topic alone. Enchantments need be caped as well. I like the [4] on weapons and say [2] on armors figures. The reason being that your weapon won't glow, and yes that does matter to people. A lot. Low level gear should not get to look as pretty as the higher level stuff. You want bells and whistles? Not at level 15, sorry. Also, since people can't seem to understand that playing 1 to 15 means you've seen only 25% of the game, two more words are in order: kill cap.

You don't have to kick people out of the zone, you could simply stop any kind of kill gain after 20 thousand or whatever be the cap. Those playing for "fun" should have no issue with this. You can still play, you just can't get 200 extra stat points from killing people at low level, and you can't use lvl 6 gear that cost you 10 billion gold to make. A lvl 60 got you that lapis, and the high level should be the only one able to use it. Since the players won't demonstrate proper restraint, the game would have to be coded to force you to.

Canta (20-30): Canta doesn't get much love because I rant it all in Proelium and then just say it's the same in Canta. Here is a little different though but in essence it is still the same. It's mid level PvP so it too needs gear caps. Nothing better than dual lapis. That means duals, 4s, 3s, 2s, and 1s. No eles, no 5s, no 6s. None of that high level stuff. This is Mid level combat. If you want high level gear, go play in the high level PvP. It's not hard to understand. 20-30 is not your kill farming zone. PvP is not about fast stats. Understand that or find another game please. Enchantments also capped as well. Exact figures I don't know. The fact that it's near impossible to get anything over [7] by yourself makes that harder to place. If such mechanics get changed then the potential caps for Canta would get changed as well. Weapons should get to glow here though.

I'm torn on the kill cap idea for Canta. On the one hand, yes you should be naturally progressing through the game and you shouldn't stop halfway through any more than you would stop halfway through a Zelda or Final Fantasy game. Still, it does take some time to get up to 50+ in HM and UM. Still, regardless of kill cap, a gear cap is needed and would resolve many issues. Keep 1-15 low level content and 20-30 mid level content. Now dual lapis is not exactly mid level but there needs to be a significant difference between 1-15 and 20-30 or what's the point in having both zones. Dual lapis offers variety without being so insanely uber as level 6s and elements. And with future updates, with level 7 and 8 lapis potentially being released, dual lapis would indeed fall to "mediocre" status.

D-Water (1-60): There are no limits here, nothing needs to change other than people need to come play here instead of hanging out in the low level zones and using them improperly. Give the newbies their battlefields back and come play with the big boys.

THE POWER TO CREATE, THE WILL TO DESTROY

As I said, there are two potential solutions and we don't have to rely on SonoV to change the game for us. Other cultures have the same options, they just don't make the same choices. We do have the ability to make the game into the fun and awesome experience we want it to be. Most of us, however, don't have the will to do so.



I won't even break this one down into sections. The smart and responsible thing to do is simple. Use 1-15 as a way to get a few ranks and do so with level 3 lapised gear. Don't blow 10 billion and don't bother enchanting because it's far too expensive and you're not a jerk so you aren't staying in 1-15 very long anyway. I don't even care if you nos, just leave after a minimal amount of time. Get 5k kills or something and move on. Play the game.

When you get to Canta repeat a similar fashion, make moderate appropriate gear and stay for a few thousand kills or a couple of ranks. Use the stat points to make grinding up to 50+ a little easier but you're not dumping elements and level 6 lapised legend gear here. This is temporary. And even if you didn't want to level up and intended to stay in Canta forever, you would do so with appropriate gear. This is mid level combat. Do you want mid level combat and mid level gear, or do you want high level gear? If you want high level content, go play in the high level. It's not rocket science. But as I said, given the freedom, it's not the lack of ability or understanding that limits us, it's the lack of desire to act with sense.

Get to D-Water and do whatever you want. Why are you paying hundreds of dollars to slaughter people who don't offer any challenge anyway? This boosts your sense of self esteem or something? How about you save money, get battle hardened, and actually earn some respect by playing the appropriate zone for your attitude? Nobody loses in this, except maybe AGE's bank account.

"But D-water is dead". Never say that again. You are the people keeping it buried. Staying in a lower zone because you don't think D-water has a big enough population is nonsensical reasoning. There are hundreds of people using this excuse and if you all actually leveled up and came to D-Water, it wouldn't be so dead. You are the ones that need to solve that issue and you'll solve it by your very presence. So long as you continue to stay in 1-15 using a BS excuse, you ensure that D-water stays "dead". Play the game properly and this is not ever an issue. Just look at the other versions of Shaiya, played by mature people with the capacity for reasonable thought. Then look at the Shaiya you play. Now wipe the tears and continue reading.

DID I JUST PAY FOR THIS?

Less Nos in 1-15. Less Lapisia sold to enchant low level gear to unreasonable levels. Less AP sold to buy level 6 lapis from high level farmers to put in low level PvP gear. Combining Proelium and Canta, imagine how much real money goes into these ridiculous strategies. So what would that mean for Aeria Games?



First, none of us, meaning the players, actually care if Aeria makes money directly. The smarter ones among us care indirectly as they understand that if the game isn't profitable it will stop being hosted; thus we all lose our characters and can't play anymore.

But would the Shaiya that most of us want to play be profitable enough to keep going? I'm not even going to analyze that directly. I've given too much thought to it in the past. Instead, I'm going to take this in a different direction.

The state of the "product" that we call Shaiya is not good right now. If this is what it needs to be to make money then the product has failed. It's just a bad product in its current state. If the "good" product, described above does not make money then that is and issue. But that doesn't mean we should hand over our cash for something that is growing increasingly unacceptable.

This, of course, is the player's fault. We pay for it. I place no blame on Aeria for selling it. If you wanna pay me to take a dump in a box and put a bow on it for you I will. Aeria is a company and its purpose is to make money. That's how it works. The blame is strictly on the players that continue to buy and thus send the message "this product is good enough to keep selling." If you don't agree with that message, stop buying until it is changed into something you do think is worth buying. That's how business works. Keep buying, they'll keep selling.

GET BUSY LIVING, OR GET BUSY DYING

I've been around in the Shaiya community for nearly two years now. I've loved the game, I've hated it. I've spent hundreds of dollars on it. I've personally sampled the buffet of US Shaiya, and even some of the other language versions. The thing that annoys me most about the US servers is that they're not getting better, and they're not going away. It's like wounded horse. Either get better, or die already. The in between struggle is the worst part. The game, as it stands, is pretty bad. It has the potential to be fantastic. But for two years we've been waiting around. Surely this is enough time to become what VN Shaiya was. But it's not happening.



So the second and final futile plea, Give Shaiya Life or give it Death. Either way I don't care, but the slow painful decline it's in is worse than either fate. I don't play the game anymore but I'm still involved in the community. I've lost people in real life and the hardest part is the period of uncertainty. You can't let go, you can't move on, there is still hope, but things don't get better. So live or die Shaiya, live or die.

And if we can't find a cure, I've the got the chainsaw ready.

- Aes

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n3cr0m33p5

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PostedDec 13, 2009 1:46 pm
* clap *

As thorough as always and thought provoking as well.

Hope more people come around before it's too late.

If not ... time to gas up that chainsaw ... it's gonna be a long night.

xeagwms

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PostedDec 13, 2009 2:38 pm


Anyway.

Anybody who wishes to play the game, or rather, anybody who wishes to have fun while playing the game, would undoubtedly agree with the sentiment expressed in this thread. In fact, I do not doubt that many of us have had the same thoughts, but were never able to (or never felt up to the challenge to) put these thoughts into a clearly worded post with thought out analysis.

I do not wish to pollute this thread with any cynicism, so I'll stop here.

consider.ez

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consider.ez
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PostedDec 13, 2009 10:58 pm
I can't believe I've read it all...bu after I did, I recommend everyone else to do the same, it's worth it.
I'm not gonna point out the things I agree or disagree there. I just want to say the people: go on, read it, and find it yourself - it will take you a lot less work than he did writing it for you Wink

Avyn

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PostedDec 14, 2009 12:31 am
My thread contained more petty name calling and belittling and less call for accountability Wink

It's something funny (a "hmm" sort of funny, not a "haha" sort of funny) that I've noticed. It's not a science by any means, but I have noticed that a large portion of our 1-60 community is Asian, while our 1-15 and 20-30 community is made up almost exclusively of Westerners. So the Eastern mentality of approaching the end of game, even when given the nonrestrictive option not to, is present on the US client as well.

The nos issue is something that, in a perfect world, could be solved by making them Lv16+ requirement on them, but that will never happen. As you say, stat points are not the purpose of PvP, but the sole purpose of nos in PvP is to acquire stat points quickly. Indeed a pointless discussion though, as I doubt that there is any "fair" option for Aeria to make the same amount of cash without perversely disrupting PvP. Newbies to the zone and to the game don't deserve to have their face crushed by a 600 crit, but what else can you do, right?

As an off-topic ramble, you say that elements should not exist in 1-15 or 20-30. Not only do I agree, but I don't like them in 1-60 either. Mages and Pagans are feeble and nonthreatening, even to most inexperienced players. Nobody gets the chills when a Mage comes to forcefully take over a grind spot. A first-timer Warrior would feel a surge of adrenalin the first time that he Stingers and utterly destroys an opposing Mage, but the thrill would soon lose it's luster. Either that or the Mage would restat to Rec and be even less of a threat. My point is that elemental dominance should be a Mage/Pagan trait (and Archer/Hunter with Epi4). Elements should still be available to other classes with Lv45 epics and rare Lv56/59 elemental imbued drops, but the fact that a class which is, by definition and practice, an unintelligent brute has elemental supremacy is a little dumb.

Other than that, I agree on all points.

Aes wrote:
We pay for it. I place no blame on Aeria for selling it. If you wanna pay me to take a dump in a box and put a bow on it for you I will. Aeria is a company and its purpose is to make money.  

This made me lol Razz

kalinin

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PostedDec 14, 2009 1:27 am
someone sticky this please!

xybolt

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PostedDec 14, 2009 8:53 am
*claps claps*

really nice post

/karmaaaa

Very Happy

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CheesePot

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PostedDec 14, 2009 9:22 am
What can I say? It's aesome.


Though somehow, I can't get rid of the stench of pessimism in my nose; not wanting to affect others, I stop here too. As Avyn did, I just add a single point, a suggestion as well:

Make stat padding legal

It's easy to do, doesn't require a change of code or community (which both are very unlikely) but it might still have an invigorating effect for 1-60 PvP, as nobody will farm stat points anymore, and the desire for uber gears in low lvl pvp zones would fade away and only remain with those who just want to feel uber for the heck of it. If it's good for Aeria or not? Reread Aes second to last paragraph.

Have fun everyone! Very Happy

Unbidden

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PostedDec 14, 2009 3:04 pm
SonoV had a solution to this they put kill caps in lower level zones, however 'Aeria' decided to ask for its removal Laughing

xybolt

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PostedDec 14, 2009 3:07 pm
Unbidden wrote:
SonoV had a solution to this they put kill caps in lower level zones, however 'Aeria' decided to ask for its removal Laughing  


yeah that is true, but since stat padding is not legal, AGE has asked to remove the kill cap in each zones lol

what business profit can do keh

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