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xHitokiri

Diamond Founder: Aura Kingdom
xHitokiri
Joined
21 Aug 2013
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411
Location
United Kingdom
PostedDec 29, 2013 3:54 am
HP stacks much better than defense, get 200 hp per point roughly.
Get 0.20% defense per point roughly, 5 points for 1 % of defense, seriously use your brains.

Defense does not scale well enough, think about it this way too.
If I have 500k hp, and 1 defense, my reflect is going to dish out a Hard OF A LOAD of damage, where as if i had 1 hp and 500k defense, im a 1 hit kill and my reflect will do nothing.

More hp and get defense from gear, is common sense, the same goes for speed, get attack on points and speed on gears.

Kirito wrote:
Aww I died again hehe, sorry did not see the red lines, was watching TV.
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superalimx

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superalimx
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481
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PostedDec 29, 2013 5:12 am
Example Calculation:
Lv55 Ravager (No Point Allocated)
Envoy Path: HP +15%
Title: +556 HP
Equipment: 12007 HP +10% HP +3704 HP
Equipment: 5066 DEF + 6% DEF + 481 DEF

HP: (11291+12007)*(1+0.3)+(0+4260)=34547
DEF: (516+5066)*(1+0.06)+(0+481)=6398

Full HP Allocation
HP: 34547+2490=37037
DEF: 6398 (41.89% DEF DMG Reduction)

Initial Damage Received: 5000
Final Damage Received: 5000*(1-0.4189)=2905.5
No. of hits before death: 37037/2905.5=12.75=12

Full DEF Allocation
HP: 34547
DEF: 6398+1925=8323(54.49% DEF DMG Reduction)

Initial Damage Received: 5000
Final Damage Received: 5000*(1-0.5449)=2275.5
No. of hits before death: 34547/2275.5=15.18=15

Conclusion:
In PvE, most monsters do not stack DoT on you. Hence, it is more accurate to calculate with Average Initial Damage Received. Average Initial Damage Received is the average of a set of Initial Damage Received. Initial Damage Received is the RAW damage you received from being hit by the monster. This RAW damage you received is not the damage received you see from your chat box. The damage received you can see from your chat box is the Final Damage Received.

The above calculation does not include % DMG Reduction (normal/elite/boss) and Static DMG Reduction. % DMG Reduction is not DEF DMG Reduction. % DMG Reduction is an additional DMG Reduction that reduces the damage received after the damage received is being reduced by the DEF DMG Reduction.

From the above calculation, you can see that with the same set of equipment, the player can withstand more hits before dying if the player allocates all the points into DEF. In addition, from my experience playing in TW AK Online, I recommend you to place all points into DEF until you reached the 75% DEF DMG Reduction cap before allocating points into HP.

Raveylicious

Rank 1
Raveylicious
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280
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PostedDec 29, 2013 5:51 am
^ I second this.

Played AK TW too, DEF is definitely more worth it unless your HP is below the 20k checkpoint, in which you could easily melt with DoT stacked on you, but depending on your team line-up, if you have a friend Bard who focuses dispel on you, there's no chance you're gonna die lmao.

SumireHikari

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SumireHikari
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05 Dec 2007
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229
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Choa Chu Kang Singapore
PostedDec 29, 2013 7:00 am
So this is what I've gathered so far:

If you go for DEF, bring it up to 75% reduction and keep it there.

If you go for EVA, bring it up to roughly 50% and maintain it(?).

EVA is useless in PvP and on classes that do not have EVA bonuses.

All other points should go to HP.

Am I understanding this correctly?

superalimx

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superalimx
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PostedDec 29, 2013 7:25 am
SumireHikari wrote:
So this is what I've gathered so far:

If you go for DEF, bring it up to 75% reduction and keep it there.

If you go for EVA, bring it up to roughly 50% and maintain it(?).

EVA is useless in PvP and on classes that do not have EVA bonuses.

All other points should go to HP.

Am I understanding this correctly?  


If you go for DEF, bring it up to 75% DEF DMG Reduction (cap).
If you go for EVA, bring it up to 95% (cap).
EVA is useful against newbie with low Accuracy or PvE players who enter the Arena for achievement. With 75% DEF, you raise EVA to 95% for higher survivability.

mirukomi

Rank 2
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28 Aug 2013
Posts
423
Location
France
PostedDec 29, 2013 8:22 am
superalimx wrote:

From the above calculation, you can see that with the same set of equipment, the player can withstand more hits before dying if the player allocates all the points into DEF. In addition, from my experience playing in TW AK Online, I recommend you to place all points into DEF until you reached the 75% DEF DMG Reduction cap before allocating points into HP.  

For pvp, to avoid being def debuffed too much, some people might allocate more points in def even when the 75% def cap is reached. Same goes for eva.

Just a complement to the awesome calc demonstration Wink

Protoflare

Rank 0
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30 Jul 2011
Posts
46
Location
United States
PostedDec 29, 2013 12:23 pm
There are a ton of mixed opinions here, but ultimately, I think I'm gonna go with HP stacking and depend on equips + guardian skills for damage reduction. Thanks to you all for your thoughts. Very Happy

ClumLord

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ClumLord
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Paris France
PostedDec 29, 2013 2:15 pm
I'm baffled by the things i see here.. I've seen some screens of the TW characters and i saw that 99% of them had 40-45k HP at lvl65-70. And i come here and see people saying they have 45k HP at level 50 with a normal (+9) gear.

Obviously there's something wrong, if HP was so good then the TW players would get it, but they don't. And i AM talking about the hardcore, insanely geared players with a gear score of 400-500k.

I haven't seen anyone putting their points into HP. Even guardians and bards go for 99 points in evasion while having their damage reduction at 75%.

Raveylicious

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PostedDec 29, 2013 5:46 pm
ClumLord wrote:
I'm baffled by the things i see here.. I've seen some screens of the TW characters and i saw that 99% of them had 40-45k HP at lvl65-70. And i come here and see people saying they have 45k HP at level 50 with a normal (+9) gear.

Obviously there's something wrong, if HP was so good then the TW players would get it, but they don't. And i AM talking about the hardcore, insanely geared players with a gear score of 400-500k.

I haven't seen anyone putting their points into HP. Even guardians and bards go for 99 points in evasion while having their damage reduction at 75%.  


Most players there only have 50 - 70k HP even at the ?? (65- 75) level range, so far I've only seen a Wizard with 100k HP there and that's about it, the thing about the benefits of HP is that its a psychological thing, when you see someone with 20k HP and another with 50k HP, naturally you'd tend to ignore the 50k HP and FF the lower HP one instead.

I'm not saying that Evasion isn't good, Evasion is good at a decent amount to punish part of the PvP community if they don't stack Accuracy well, but if you do not have a decent HP (say 20k+ minimum) and a 75% DEF, its not wise to start stacking Evasions.

The Guardians and Bards there went for full Evasion is because they've already maxed their DEF, and yes you're right, HP and ATK is generally the most worthless stats to invest SP into.

Just a note...


Speed affects animation time, DoT, HoT, cooldown, it has so much utility to offer, if you have a decent amount of critical already and you want to be more versatile and have more utility, I fail to see how ATK > HP. It's a direct multiplier to DoT and Ballad for those advocating Damage over-time/Hardcore sad love song builds and it allows you to rotate your skill combos more efficiently due to the cooldown reduction.

Clearly in this case, HP is only worth pumping if you're in need to heavily counter DoT, that's pretty much about it, in terms of effective HP, DEF wins hands down and if you constantly have a Bard who cleanses you, there's no need to worry about DoT at all. In the first place, if you have a high Evasion, its already hard enough to even attempt stacking DoT on you.

taemikath

Rank 0
taemikath
Joined
15 Dec 2013
Posts
127
Location
Hatyai Thailand
PostedDec 29, 2013 6:12 pm
ClumLord wrote:
I'm baffled by the things i see here.. I've seen some screens of the TW characters and i saw that 99% of them had 40-45k HP at lvl65-70. And i come here and see people saying they have 45k HP at level 50 with a normal (+9) gear.

Obviously there's something wrong, if HP was so good then the TW players would get it, but they don't. And i AM talking about the hardcore, insanely geared players with a gear score of 400-500k.

I haven't seen anyone putting their points into HP. Even guardians and bards go for 99 points in evasion while having their damage reduction at 75%.  


I think you are missing the point I was illustrating with my stats.

Of course it would be ridiculous for me to have 45K hp and being paper-thin with 2K def or less, under which situation HP would really be a poor buffer.

In the current CBT context, my def is already on par with the tankiest classes, having twice their HP on top of it brings me way ahead than just a couple of % more def in this context.

But if you compare me to a lv.18, my defense is godly, however if you compare me to a lv.70 it's definitely subpar (since % reduction is based on mobs of similar level)

I'm not saying go full HP and make your defense nonexistent. I'm saying if your defense/evasion is on par (be it with stat points or just gear alone), then HP definitely provides more benefits in return.

Taking your example in consideration to scale it accordingly, if both the lv.70 have capped Def and Evasion, who do you think will perform better the one with 40K hp or the one with 80K hp? Like wise, would the 2nd player be really more efficient with a raised virtual Def at 80% (virtual since cap is 75% but it's possible to go beyond to counter debuffs) and down to the same 40K hp, or is he just better with 75% reduction and 80K HP?

And for the people who frown so much about the use of HPs, How viable is a duelist at lv.65 with 14K hp or I would say 20K by that time?

EDIT: not even looking that far, how many of those 14K hp can 1-2 man Otherworld Skandia?

Am I the best player, absolutely not; I don't even like PVP, but whenever I duel, my DoT melts through those low HPs builds long before I can feel threatened. Just like against the tankiest classes, I survive easily stun combos.
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