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cobrashark13

Rank 3
cobrashark13
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Posts
1303
Location
New Milford United States
PostedMay 03, 2013 11:49 am
FunkyColdMadea wrote:
I view this thread as a step in the 'right direction' for AGE. So many times in the past, threads have been put up about ingame concerns, only to be seemingly ignored by AGE Staff.

I feel safe in saying thank you for the whole Shaiya community.

However, a thread created by the AGE Staff, posted to ONLY by the AGE Staff to keep the community informed of progress would be eagerly accepted. Previous threads of this type allowed for 'non-staff' input and any relevant information was lost in pages of flames.  


I agree with this statement. I feel like they should tell us EXACTLY what is going on. For example "we know that damage is messed up, we want to keep high level mage/pagans where they are and give all other clasees their attack power back and restore the lower levels to exactly how they were before" if that is what they hope to accomplish. I always felt like the descriptions of the patches could be better. Instead of saying "OJs on costumes will be reduced slighly" say "the new max oj for costumes is going to be 7000/70" (i dont know if my numbers are accurate, i dont have costume) That being said thank you very much gms posting on this thread (although it contained no new information) it makes me feel a little better when you acknowlege its importance.

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Rushaye

Rank 1
Joined
26 Oct 2011
Posts
221
Location
Trinidad and Tobago
PostedMay 03, 2013 11:56 am
FlutePro wrote:
I do agree. OS Merged UoF needs active GS's that run events bad.... I'm not trying to hate on them and maybe I'm just not on at the time they do events, but the only one I ever see is [GS]TheWifey and they are either drag and drop or trivia. What happened to Russian roulette and PvP events? Sad New Game Sages would be a good idea.  



GS's also have real life to attend to, but i can only speak for myself. My GS toon is only level 30. And my experience with pvp in the past have been bad. Players don't listen for 1, I always get killed. We try our best, and yes we need a few more GS Smile

EllaIzzy13

GameSage: Shaiya
EllaIzzy13
Joined
12 Feb 2011
Posts
1159
Location
Wartrace United States
PostedMay 03, 2013 1:20 pm
Rushaye wrote:
GS's also have real life to attend to, but i can only speak for myself. My GS toon is only level 30. And my experience with pvp in the past have been bad. Players don't listen for 1, I always get killed.  


This is the main reason most GSes don't hold events. People can't listen. Today was the first time in a successful event of mine that I did not die due to someone breaking the rules. I understand that accidents happen sometimes, but most of the time they do it on purpose. There are also other factors that have to do with a GS's holding events.

Also, I'm usually on everyday, I just don't always make myself completely known. If someone asks for a GS, I will PM them directly usually. Being nice to GSes also gets you more events btw, for those of you who think that making a scene in Trade chat every night is fun. ^^

Mandatar

Rank 5
Mandatar
Joined
11 Apr 2009
Posts
3545
Location
Netherlands
PostedMay 03, 2013 2:34 pm

Re: Open Letter for Aeria Games & Entertainment

Supplication to fix the glitches and restore balance
GM_darasuum wrote:

I assure you that we here at AGE are working with the Dev team to fix the recent issues that have caused PvP to become less that favorable for players.

While "AGE cannot do anything, and it's in the hands of the Devs" has some, very slight, truth to it (Because we cannot write our own patches), we are not completely helpless in the endeavor to help fix the issues.

This isn't a post to quiet the masses or quell any of the communities voice, it is simply to let you know we are aware of the issue, we are working on it and we have not abandoned you.  


Thanks for the positive response. I have to admit that I was rather sceptical when I saw the threads that you needed help on the Attack Power issue... and help again.
http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=1967807

I responded in the first thread that your input parameters were not correct, and seemingly that information was not used, because the 2nd inquiry is having the same issues. The questions you ask in there are insufficient in finding out the issue. It felt a bit like, AGE is reading our feed-back, but nobody is in control of making the right interpretation.

I'll try to explain here what the current issue with attack power is by the illustration of how the physical attack for melee attacks is calculated.

Terms:
PA = Physical Attack Power
PA_RAW = Phyiscal Attack Power without enchant bonus
STR = Strength
DEX = Dexeterity
PAB = Passive skill Attack Bonus
BASE = Weapon's average base attack damage (min-max)
BASE_MOD = Weapons's average modified attack damage after each enchant step (min-max)
BASE_MOD_OLD = BASE_MOD from previous enchant level.
Fact = Factor by which enchant bonus gets modified
EB = Enchant Bonus per enchant step
EB_MOD = Enchant Bonus Modified after enchant boost patch 2012
EB_MOD_GLITCH = Enchant Bonus Modified after glitch patch 2013


Basic physical attack calculation without enchants
PA_RAW = STR*1.3 + DEX*0.2 + PAB + BASE

Now when you enchanted a weapon to [5] before the enchant boost you'd get:
PA = PA_RAW + 7 + 7 + 7 + 10 + 10 (boost of 41)

Or as a general formula for any enchant level:

PA = PA_RAW + SUM([EB])

Last year, Nexon brought out an enchant bonus system, but a boost that got bigger at higher levels. My analysis of that patch is that they changed the bonus per enchant level based on the BASE value of the weapons by a factor. It makes sense in a way that they can ignore blend it in more easily in the existing code like that.

Now each enchant level seemed to still give a rounded bonus, but than modified by a formula a bit like this (not that EB_MOD is always rounded to a whole integer number:
EB_MOD = EB*(1 + (BASE_MOD-40)/280))
BASE_MOD = BASE_MOD_OLD + EB_MOD

This means your modified base attack needed to be at 60 average before you can gain anything from enchant level [1]-[3]:
EB_MOD = 7*(1+ (60-40)/280)) = 7*(1 + 1/14) = 7.5 ... rounded to 8

New attack calculation
PA = PA_RAW + SUM([EB_MOD])

What was the result of this? High level weapons with a bigger "starting" base attack have more bonus. However the increase of bonus for higher enchant levels is more steep at lower levels (high enchants even more dominating).

Now, the patch in 2013 sort of made the increase in attack power the same for all zones (endgame complaining about attack loss, while lower zones experienced increases).

What I assume went wrong is this:
EB_MOD_GLITCH = EB*(1 + (CONSTANT-40)/280))

They had a coder who went to fix the caster damage, and somehow messed up getting a fixed value for the starting base attack of a weapon. At least not what it should be. Now lower zones get even more bonus, while 80 zone has lost enchant bonus throughout the field.

The formulas above are very likely not accurate, but it more or less describes the issue with enchant bonus right now. Hopefully an employee of AGE can give a decent interpretation and translate this to the devs for investigation. It cost me quite some effort analysing and writing this out in my spare time, so I hope it may be used.

Azeal (80), Scrooge (30), Someshta (30), Nardel (15), Mandatar (65)

cobrashark13

Rank 3
cobrashark13
Joined
13 Oct 2011
Posts
1303
Location
New Milford United States
PostedMay 03, 2013 3:49 pm

Re: Open Letter for Aeria Games & Entertainment

Supplication to fix the glitches and restore balance
Mandatar wrote:
GM_darasuum wrote:

I assure you that we here at AGE are working with the Dev team to fix the recent issues that have caused PvP to become less that favorable for players.

While "AGE cannot do anything, and it's in the hands of the Devs" has some, very slight, truth to it (Because we cannot write our own patches), we are not completely helpless in the endeavor to help fix the issues.

This isn't a post to quiet the masses or quell any of the communities voice, it is simply to let you know we are aware of the issue, we are working on it and we have not abandoned you.  


Thanks for the positive response. I have to admit that I was rather sceptical when I saw the threads that you needed help on the Attack Power issue... and help again.
http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=1967807

I responded in the first thread that your input parameters were not correct, and seemingly that information was not used, because the 2nd inquiry is having the same issues. The questions you ask in there are insufficient in finding out the issue. It felt a bit like, AGE is reading our feed-back, but nobody is in control of making the right interpretation.

I'll try to explain here what the current issue with attack power is by the illustration of how the physical attack for melee attacks is calculated.

Terms:
PA = Physical Attack Power
PA_RAW = Phyiscal Attack Power without enchant bonus
STR = Strength
DEX = Dexeterity
PAB = Passive skill Attack Bonus
BASE = Weapon's average base attack damage (min-max)
BASE_MOD = Weapons's average modified attack damage after each enchant step (min-max)
BASE_MOD_OLD = BASE_MOD from previous enchant level.
Fact = Factor by which enchant bonus gets modified
EB = Enchant Bonus per enchant step
EB_MOD = Enchant Bonus Modified after enchant boost patch 2012
EB_MOD_GLITCH = Enchant Bonus Modified after glitch patch 2013


Basic physical attack calculation without enchants
PA_RAW = STR*1.3 + DEX*0.2 + PAB + BASE

Now when you enchanted a weapon to [5] before the enchant boost you'd get:
PA = PA_RAW + 7 + 7 + 7 + 10 + 10 (boost of 41)

Or as a general formula for any enchant level:

PA = PA_RAW + SUM([EB])

Last year, Nexon brought out an enchant bonus system, but a boost that got bigger at higher levels. My analysis of that patch is that they changed the bonus per enchant level based on the BASE value of the weapons by a factor. It makes sense in a way that they can ignore blend it in more easily in the existing code like that.

Now each enchant level seemed to still give a rounded bonus, but than modified by a formula a bit like this (not that EB_MOD is always rounded to a whole integer number:
EB_MOD = EB*(1 + (BASE_MOD-40)/280))
BASE_MOD = BASE_MOD_OLD + EB_MOD

This means your modified base attack needed to be at 60 average before you can gain anything from enchant level [1]-[3]:
EB_MOD = 7*(1+ (60-40)/280)) = 7*(1 + 1/14) = 7.5 ... rounded to 8

New attack calculation
PA = PA_RAW + SUM([EB_MOD])

What was the result of this? High level weapons with a bigger "starting" base attack have more bonus. However the increase of bonus for higher enchant levels is more steep at lower levels (high enchants even more dominating).

Now, the patch in 2013 sort of made the increase in attack power the same for all zones (endgame complaining about attack loss, while lower zones experienced increases).

What I assume went wrong is this:
EB_MOD_GLITCH = EB*(1 + (CONSTANT-40)/280))

They had a coder who went to fix the caster damage, and somehow messed up getting a fixed value for the starting base attack of a weapon. At least not what it should be. Now lower zones get even more bonus, while 80 zone has lost enchant bonus throughout the field.

The formulas above are very likely not accurate, but it more or less describes the issue with enchant bonus right now. Hopefully an employee of AGE can give a decent interpretation and translate this to the devs for investigation. It cost me quite some effort analysing and writing this out in my spare time, so I hope it may be used.  



Anything that complicated must be true. Thanks for taking your time to try to help us.

consider.ez

Rank 4
consider.ez
Joined
12 Jun 2008
Posts
2599
Location
Liberec Czech Republic
PostedMay 03, 2013 6:02 pm
Superman0X wrote:
consider.ez wrote:
Superman0X wrote:
As for solving game issues, Aeria doesnt do that, as we dont code the game. However, the developer (in this case Nexon) does do that, and will be involved in the process for any improvement.  
What about website issues?  

You can report those to use directly, as we maintain the website.  

Well, there's one, see ticket #8580487, reported half year ago and no improvements yet Sad

Superman0X

GameMaster: USA
Superman0X
Joined
11 Jun 2007
Posts
12163
Location
San Jose United States
PostedMay 03, 2013 6:13 pm
consider.ez wrote:
Superman0X wrote:
consider.ez wrote:
Superman0X wrote:
As for solving game issues, Aeria doesnt do that, as we dont code the game. However, the developer (in this case Nexon) does do that, and will be involved in the process for any improvement.  
What about website issues?  

You can report those to use directly, as we maintain the website.  

Well, there's one, see ticket #8580487, reported half year ago and no improvements yet Sad  


It is not clear if, or when this will be resolved.

SoFlyyyBby

Rank 0
Joined
04 May 2013
Posts
18
Location
Norway
PostedMay 04, 2013 7:10 am
EllaIzzy13 wrote:
Rushaye wrote:
GS's also have real life to attend to, but i can only speak for myself. My GS toon is only level 30. And my experience with pvp in the past have been bad. Players don't listen for 1, I always get killed.  


This is the main reason most GSes don't hold events. People can't listen. Today was the first time in a successful event of mine that I did not die due to someone breaking the rules. I understand that accidents happen sometimes, but most of the time they do it on purpose. There are also other factors that have to do with a GS's holding events.

Also, I'm usually on everyday, I just don't always make myself completely known. If someone asks for a GS, I will PM them directly usually. Being nice to GSes also gets you more events btw, for those of you who think that making a scene in Trade chat every night is fun. ^^  


I make a scene all the time ... Not only at nights Rolling Eyes

EllaIzzy13

GameSage: Shaiya
EllaIzzy13
Joined
12 Feb 2011
Posts
1159
Location
Wartrace United States
PostedMay 04, 2013 8:19 am
SoFlyyyBby wrote:


I make a scene all the time ... Not only at nights Rolling Eyes  


Talking about ingame, love. Razz

JamesGodden

Rank 5.1
JamesGodden
Joined
17 May 2008
Posts
8326
Location
Whitstable United Kingdom
PostedMay 04, 2013 10:50 am

Re: Open Letter for Aeria Games & Entertainment

Supplication to fix the glitches and restore balance
Mandatar wrote:
What was the result of this? High level weapons with a bigger "starting" base attack have more bonus.  


This statement is partially wrong btw, lvl79 1h blunts don't fit that trend, their bonus/hidden enchant atk increase was pretty much the same as that for Javs and Spears, yet the 1h blunt isn't even close to them for its normal base atk.

It bucks the trend and is probably an anomaly, nevertheless it is true and breaks any logic that the hidden bonus related to the starting base.

Rekikyo's idea that the hidden bonus is just a random table (i.e. no formula just numbers against each weap and each enchant level) is much more likely (and much easier to break).

Rest of ya post is good just 1h blunts ruin any formulae based on starting atk

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