Author Message

Arsalem

Rank 1
Arsalem
Joined
14 Oct 2010
Posts
397
Location
Fort Collins United States
PostedApr 18, 2013 2:48 am

Dynamic PvP/ PK

Perhaps I misspoke somewhere before.
Do I personally relish PvP /Pk in am online game? No. I've said it before, that's why shaiya truly has a very short staffed new player basis. I would prefer not to see DKO lose a lot of players. Oh... That just happen ended yesterday upon the release for the new content anyways. So yes, I must be wrong when I day this then. The way open PvP and Pk was introduced to DKO feels overly... Premature and half baked at best.

So let me put it this way. As some suggestions for things that MAKE SENSE.

REALM vs REALM
Plenty of games have faction based war. That makes perfect sense for games that have a "history" or "back story" whereas games that are just fight fight fight (wolf team I.e.) don't necessarily need a lot of thought or content prior to their creation as far as storyline or history go. What do other games have that make PvP in faction style much more plausible and more rewarding?

Well, some have alternate maps that you can be transported to, where the factions fight over them CONSTANTLY so there is always a shifting balance in power. Some have these maps as shortened mirrors of parts of the actual game. They dont award players points for just sitting around afk. You have to go kill things, players, towers whatever it may be. Some have more than two factioms which helps alot. Some even allow skills or buffs specific to a faction. Why do I find that relevant? Because other than the Ruemon battle, your faction determines nothing nor actually matters in this game yet. ESPECIALLY WITH NO POLITICAL OR ALLIANCE SYSTEM IMPLEMENTED YET. (Which are heavily flawed by the current bp and gp system anyways.)

Castle SIEGE

Now let's talk about what a SIEGE implies:
Waiting to flush out your enemy via tactics and strategy, by either starvation (not applicable in the slightest) or the creation of siege engines that then lead to the slaughter of either side.

What we have NOW:
A boring game of cat and mouse where once you have all the defenders you want enlisted, can easily become a problem for the side that wishes to attack.

Things that would keep "siege" warfare fast paced while still falling into the aspect of "siege".

Group Skills (Guild or Team) that imply the use of tactics and strategy:
Calvary charge:
Ok you have a mount right? So what would make for a.fast paced attack? A bloody calvary charge. Let the 6 players of a team mount up and create a spear they could drive at their opponent. One, it maintains fast paced battle, and two its actually rather impressive when used correctly.
Arrow walls or large aoe areas of arrows (magic or otherwise, but implies the implementation of the long awaited archer as well.):
Imagine this, you're on the attacking side, you get a bunch of casters or archers or both together, and charge up a skill that does massive aoe damage over a LARGE area of the defending castle. Imagine dex or con builds dodging or withstanding the effects of being pincushions.
Siege engines:
Make them.summons, put a health bar on them and give them a ridiculously long cool down. The implementation of let's say, ballistae, catapults, trebuchets, war towers and rams would be bloody brilliant. I'm not saying you have to BUILD the item. But nearly summon.it. make it a guild leader only set of skills and bam, maybe 4 of each (I'm just going off of what I normally see for guilds turning out for CS here) at a time would be around. How to fix the issue of that being too much to handle? Put a 10 minute cool down between summons. What would you want a siege engine for? Maybe breaking down the walls or gates of Ledise or Raden. The way things actually went during siege warfare.
Phallanx Formations:
We have shields, we have casters. What makes sense? Probably the way Pure, Skyraker, Boom, Sindah, and Myself used to direct RvR. Place your casters behind a wall of warriors and paladins, that way they can cast outside and hopefully not get overrun to quickly.
What would it help with in CS? Hmm... Forming up to deflect the massive crits a calvary charge would ensue. Blocking more damage from the arrow ability I mentioned. What could go wrong? A massive well aimed stone from a trebuchet or catapult crushes a section of your phalanx. Oh no.

Seriously, I've never been so disappointed with something being called a siege. Its more of an "alliance scramble" at the moment.

I mean when I took baston from nitty it took no real strategy or tactics. O waited for the defenders to be distracted then stole the castle. ALONE. My only ally who tried to come with me got cut down in the first few seconds. I almost died casting imprint, but the point is all I had to do was say *mine* and done.

Now open area PvP and PK

I actually understand why this is fun. I do. However, making the areas that you need to do heavy grinding in, in order to level up auto PvP areas is pretty foolish. Especially since there are quests in those areas. What I would do as a PKer? I'd camp these areas and kill unsuspecting questers. Lessens my chance of competition as far as players of the same level right? Seriously people, I want you to think of it this way. Remember when OB was just released. Week 2 the temple was crowded with solo players and parties. You could walk through a whole quarter of a floor and find it farmed out for a minute or two. Bow, imagine we had this PvP and PK area initiated then. Would EVERY one of you capped players be capped now? I highly doubt it. There probably would be a lot of rage quitting.

For example, Flip, when you first made it to the forest and the temple as a primary soloing player up to that point, you were ticked off and frustrated constantly. I remember your frustration with my guild. You were one of my vices and even attempted to go so far as to ban my players from partying with other players other than their own guild. Makes sense, but took away too Mich freedom, so I had to override that. Now imagine you could have been PK'd that entire time.all the time. Would you have stuck around and played? I'm going to venture put on a limb and say NO.

As for PK vs PvP:

PvP is something agreed to. Either by entering an agreed upon warzone, or by entering an instance area where it is guild.vs guild, team vs team, or player vs player.

A great way to go about that correctly would be an arena. Not the little sparring ring type outside of led use, but an actual 24/7 operating arena with a ranking system. That would imply PvP. The ability to claim war against members of another guild is PvP. Same with RvR and faction warfare maps. PvP.

PK, is the killing of players mid quest or mid raid for the fun of it and the fact that it is made available. (Again I consider shaiya to be a great pk game. Not so much a PvP game as all the high level players are the same ones that have been high levels for years.)

PKung SHOULD come.with a price. Your name goes constantly red for a set amount if time after pk for.example. or if you die as a poker you lose gear.


Now, wrap.your heads around this:
If you truly love just PvP/ pk style gameplay and want the entirety of litos to be that way, then we should do this:

1. Remove player stats. Leave the stats as attributes of the items you find and equip only.

2. Remove the use of skills and magic. You don't need those to beat each other to a pulp.

3. Make some or all of your gear loseable upon death. Which would imply you would have to earn your way to the top again.

4. Make the level indicator actually indicate howany players you've defeated in PvP or PK.

Why would I even reference that as an idea?

Probably because there is no need for depth in a games history, background or quest lines (they are literally pointless to have in PvP and pk areas.) When all that is left to do is butcher each other.


I even heard a rumor they plan to make the Korean version like ours.... Uhm WHY? They have a higher level cap than us, they have the archer, they have far more content. They probably have an Item mall too that generates revenue. Why would we change their game toatch ours when we are losing the player base? I mean seriously the CB and stress test players are dropping like flies. The new players aren't lasting very long either. Let's think about that.... You need an active player base or you go down the drain.

Bloody amusing.

Now , please place an opinion about my opinion and tell me why yours is a fact and my ideas are ludacris. Smile

Courtesy of Emralyn, Lalaheat & filipvarga <br> GL- LucidDream
Advertisement

Arsalem

Rank 1
Arsalem
Joined
14 Oct 2010
Posts
397
Location
Fort Collins United States
PostedApr 18, 2013 3:08 am
Bryan has basically said as much already here: (not to mention a few other places as well)

http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=1882675

Courtesy of Emralyn, Lalaheat & filipvarga <br> GL- LucidDream

LalaHeat

Rank 1
LalaHeat
Joined
18 Sep 2012
Posts
249
Location
Amarillo, Texas United States
PostedApr 18, 2013 12:43 pm
her here! I remember when i first took the quest to decide faction i had asked, does my faction affect anything aside from my ability to join a guild and hence ruemon, the answer was a resounding NO, which, honestly was a bit dissappointing.

And your ideas for CS, actually would probably prompt alot of us solo players to join in a group/party/guild just to experience 'group skills'

and as for open pk, i think most have my opinion on this topic, it's ridiculous, cuz not everyone is a pker, and yes, since the zones are in key grind/quest areas, such as orcish base and temple, there will be alot of rage-quitting, the kind that players wont come back. especially since the made it to where you only get xp from mobs w/i 10 lvls of yourself.

To add to the having been killed in the middle of temple, you now have to run around, spend money on teleporting to baston and then making the forest run or use a precious tele scroll... I played a pvp/pk game once where yeah, it was irritating to die if i entered a pk zone, but there was a mechanism that i could run all the way to my corpse as a ghost and revive myself, or rev myself at the graveyard. we dont here, we dont even have a choice to revive in baston instead of raden...

And yes, what was the point ot go on on and on about the history of litos in the opening sequence about dragon knights... as it is, the devs have done nothing to integrate that story aside from various bosses being kharvags henchmen and maybe small talk from key npcs... if this pk pvp rvr CS is all the game is... then it seems to me there was no need to give such a history lesson...

Arsalem

Rank 1
Arsalem
Joined
14 Oct 2010
Posts
397
Location
Fort Collins United States
PostedApr 18, 2013 12:45 pm
There is still some.hope... I mean the Korean version has been more succsessful than us. I wonder what exactly they have?

Courtesy of Emralyn, Lalaheat & filipvarga <br> GL- LucidDream

filmoret

Rank 0
Joined
28 May 2010
Posts
10
Location
United States
PostedApr 29, 2013 6:19 am

What happens if.

I agree that this game needs to enforce faction pvp and not allow free for all killing. It is nice to go out in the game and know who the enemy is and who is not. It makes the words "role playing" actually mean something again. I could bet that any game that is free for all and not faction enforced will be horrible for pvp. I have yet to see this done without tons of stupid problems.

Now for the open world pvp areas. If you remove these areas then you remove the open world pvp. That is just how it works. I have seen it too much when games advertise open world pvp then they only have a few areas where this is possible. This usually kills open world pvp entirely. I've been playing pk games since 1996 and the battlezone things are fun and many other things, but if you want open world pvp then you gotta keep lots of areas and keep players questing in them. It is part of the challenge in the game. You build your character carefully and as you are building him you eventually become one of the maxed out players. But you gotta build him in a warzone which makes you stronger, smarter, faster. You gotta tell yourself that you are a survivor not another victim.

filipvarga

GameSage: DK Online
filipvarga
Joined
06 Dec 2008
Posts
2568
Location
Porec Croatia
PostedMay 02, 2013 9:47 am
Since faction can be changed easily, it is killing the balance in PvP. Leechers like to switch to the stronger faction and then trashtalk, because they are afraid to actually fight.

I am now bringing up my PvP System Suggestion, not to advertise it, but to bring up a point related to it.
Kill/Death PvP System!
With this system being implemented, similar to Shaiya (as Arsalem has mention it in his main post), PvP would get a purpose besides of the Storyline and additional attendance and fun.
It could also be used to prevent players from switching Realms to gain an advantage of leeching the stronger faction.
You lose Glory Points for switching Camps. The Kill/Death Count could be reset upon switching, and it would actually make some sense.
You lose Glory, as you are joining a different faction and nobody knows you there (roleplay), so you cannot be as glorious as you have been in your previous faction. Same goes for Kills and Deaths, since you have joined a new environment, nobody knows how many enemies you have slain.
However, Kill/Death can also be your personal record and as long as you know the numbers, you do not have to care about people believing your war achievements, but if you want everyone to know exactly how many enemies you have killed and how many times you fall in combat, do not be a coward and switch factions, simple as that.

filmoret

Rank 0
Joined
28 May 2010
Posts
10
Location
United States
PostedMay 02, 2013 11:01 am

Nice thoughts.

how about this for a fix
So what they can do is measure the amount of players in a certain area. For example there are 50 players from nation x in the area and only 10 players from nation y. Therefore if a player from nation y kills a player from nation x then they get bonus points. And if a player from nation x kills a player from nation y then they get gimped points.

I believe this would solve nation hopping because they would get nothing from overwhelming the enemies instead they gotta go for a fair fight.

filipvarga

GameSage: DK Online
filipvarga
Joined
06 Dec 2008
Posts
2568
Location
Porec Croatia
PostedMay 02, 2013 11:13 am

Re: Nice thoughts.

how about this for a fix
filmoret wrote:
So what they can do is measure the amount of players in a certain area. For example there are 50 players from nation x in the area and only 10 players from nation y. Therefore if a player from nation y kills a player from nation x then they get bonus points. And if a player from nation x kills a player from nation y then they get gimped points.

I believe this would solve nation hopping because they would get nothing from overwhelming the enemies instead they gotta go for a fair fight.  

This sounds good as well. Some true PvPers are looking for a challenge and prefer being outnumbered. This way their efforts would get rewarded more than those that just leech.

Display posts from previous:   Sort by: