Mod: Topic split from here.

crimsonlily46 wrote:

ghiden wrote: crimsonlily46 wrote: gmebilfish wrote: Yup, there are plans regarding the balance issue with RvR. The PM and the Devs are working on it.   *this might be irrelevant to PvP, but class balance though* Why are SM's DoT so strong? Sorc's burn is just a joke compared to it. That skill hit me for over 700, then DoT for over 100 per 1/2 seconds(didn'T notice, all I knew is I was dead after a few seconds, he just ran away after using his skill on me and my potion didn't cover his DoT). All my burn does is 30 damage every 2s, on mobs, I have yet to check on players.   This has to do with how many enchants are on a weapon.. how high mattack is.. and what stats are used. there are a ton of variables that u have to consider before u compare damage.   I wasn't expecting that high matk would give these numbers as matk barely boost your damages. Oh well.

Mattack boosts attack alot. I do about triple at 42 what I did at level 15. The dots do not go up large amounts, but Base damage does. Level 10 Poisons barely hit 90-100 Base, and at 42 I'm hitting around 250. Dark skills at 10 hit around 140; At level 42 alot of them hit around 500.

1200 Mag attack = +240 Magic damage (5:1). On a skill that adds 190, that's around 430 damage!. In addition, they can crit.

On a Sorc, Int adds 6 Magic attack, allowing their Mattack to go even higher.

I dont know about Burn atm, but Darkness Dot was also adjusted to be attack power based (Night Terror). Imo, if both dark and poison and Bled were affected, so should Burn.

If we're going to have more levels, you also need to realize, Enchant, and skill additional damage is constant. The only parts of the damage equation that will grow, are the base damage on the weapons, and your stat attack bonuses. The weapons climb at a rate of about +30 per 10 levels on the Heroic weapons. Int would raise about 10 per 10 levels. So eventually you will see Int playing a bigger % damage role than it currently does.

Also, keep in mind we only have Rune level 2 atm. There's a good possibility rune Lv III and IV, etc, add far more than 5 stat points. We could have a rune that adds +20 Int before it is over. While your base stats are small, that gain would be significant on large scales.

Rekikyo wrote:

1200 Mag attack = +240 Magic damage (5:1). On a skill that adds 190, that's around 430 damage!. In addition, they can crit. On a Sorc, Int adds 6 Magic attack, allowing their Mattack to go even higher. I dont know about Burn atm, but Darkness Dot was also adjusted to be attack power based (Night Terror). Imo, if both dark and poison and Bled were affected, so should Burn.

Burn isn't currently affected by matk then. Bought myself a +7 staff, about 160 more matk than my previous one and my burn still does 30ish, yet it is reduced by magic resistance.. (I do slightly more burn damage on low level mobs; 39 on Lv18, 30 on Lv31)

Is it confirmed that it is 5:1 ratio?

(Sorry for hi-jacking the topic; we're off topic now.. D: )

crimsonlily46 wrote:

Rekikyo wrote: 1200 Mag attack = +240 Magic damage (5:1). On a skill that adds 190, that's around 430 damage!. In addition, they can crit. On a Sorc, Int adds 6 Magic attack, allowing their Mattack to go even higher. I dont know about Burn atm, but Darkness Dot was also adjusted to be attack power based (Night Terror). Imo, if both dark and poison and Bled were affected, so should Burn.   Burn isn't currently affected by matk then. Bought myself a +7 staff, about 160 more matk than my previous one and my burn still does 30ish, yet it is reduced by magic resistance.. (I do slightly more burn damage on low level mobs; 39 on Lv18, 30 on Lv31) Is it confirmed that it is 5:1 ratio? (Sorry for hi-jacking the topic; we're off topic now.. D: )

I've been damage testing since CB and I've always found damage around 20-25% of Magic attack once you take out the skill damage.

I'll give you an example.

Atm on I'm grinding on Defensive Buff with 877 Magic attack

Dark Scourge gives me 110-160, Poison Cloud gives me 30-45.

My recorded damage on Poison Cloud is 224-239
My recorded damage on Dark Scourge is 385-437

This leads to a remainder of:
PC: 194-194
DS: 275-277 (Approximate enough)

From the remainders, we can hypothesize that the two skills reflect different % of Magic attack, indicating that different Modifiers are used.

877/194= 4.5 Magic attack per damage
877/276= 3.1 Magic attack per damage

194/877=22% of Magic attack
276/877=31.5% of Magic attack

Now; this could be meaning monsters have a resistance to these skills, but unlikely; On all mobs around the same level (20-35), this damage is pretty consistent.

All we can tell for certain is that skill additional damage is working correctly (when subtracted out, both the minimum result and the maximum result are near the same).

But it is very likely that every skill is assigned a different modifier (hence why Magic attack is not written like Physical attack, 1:1).

Another instance would be on heals.
At that Magic attack, I heal for anywhere from 880-1062.

If I consider 300-400 is what is written on the skill Heal Lv3, and assume it is correct, this leads to a remainder of:

580-662. I have no idea why there is a remainder here, but it could possibly be a hidden effect of a stat. But; we can assume that the patch notes are correct, and heals scale to level. What we cannot determine, is what portion of this heal is level based, and what portion is magic attack based, without checking on a non magic weapon. (Goes and grabs a longsword)

When I take off all my magic attack gear, I still have 252 Magic attack (Base Increase of 42 levels + 35 int (175+77))
My heals ranged from 460-562
We can assume now, that 462 = 300+162 points, and 562= 400+162

You'll notice the range disappeared. The only explanation, is that the range of heals was tied to my staff, which contributed 417 of my magic attack (It could be that levels of enchant affect heals more now, by about 12 points of heals per level of enchant)

Anywho,
162=252x =.64, or 64% of Magic attack
580=877x =.66, or 66% of Magic attack

We can assume I didnt get my exact maximums and mins, because X solves for such a similar answer. In other words, I would assume that for every 3 points of magic attack, you recieve 2 points of heal.

See what I mean? I feel that the math supports the theory that every skill type is different for casters.

Dark@ 33% of Magic attack; Poison at 22%, Heals at 66%

Sorceress might be a bit different, but the damage results I saw in ST were putting Sorc skills around 20% -25% of Magic attack.

As for Burn; it's not EXACTLY 30 for the burn? If the burn is not returning a fixed rate on 30/40/50 etc, I would assume something about it is related to magic attack. If it is 29, I would guess that the actual starting points per level are 25/35/45, with additions from magic attack. It IS unfair if they do not scale.

Huh.. accidently closed my browser.. for a quick summary...

409 Matk on old Sorc at 24(200 from Elemental Adept Lv3, 24 Levels and a crappy staff)
177 Matk on new sorc at 31(nude, 31 Levels and 16 INT)
692 Matk on new sorc at 31(130 from Weapon Rune Lv2)
Old sorc has Solar Flare Lv3, new one has Lv1.

From memory, Solar Flare Lv1's burn did around 50 on Trainee Island, Lv2 did around 60 and 3 around 70. I'm unable to verify as I currently have 3 char. Canceled deletion on my old sorc to get some numbers, even though she has Lv3, a bit hard to compare.

On twilight hornets(Lv10) outside Ledise, old sorc does 65 per tick.
New sorc nude does 39 and equiped does 39 too.

On owl beasts(Lv26) north of Baston, old sorc does 52 per tick.
New sorc nude does 31 and equiped does 31 too.

On cursed spectrals(Lv30) on Level 1 of Tower, new sorc nude does 30 and equiped does 30 too.

Burn would be affected by Magic Resistance, but not by Matk?


As for Matk ratio, that would explain why Ice Lance Lv3 does slightly more than Fireball Lv3, even though the max damage range is similar. Kinda wish I had went full INT as I'm currently not interessed by PvP.
Fireball Lv3: 63~73, Ice Lance Lv3: 37~78
Ice Lance used to do about 30 more damage with my old staff than Fireball.

crimsonlily46 wrote:

Huh.. accidently closed my browser.. for a quick summary... 409 Matk on old Sorc at 24(200 from Elemental Adept Lv3, 24 Levels and a crappy staff) 177 Matk on new sorc at 31(nude, 31 Levels and 16 INT) 692 Matk on new sorc at 31(130 from Weapon Rune Lv2) Old sorc has Solar Flare Lv3, new one has Lv1. From memory, Solar Flare Lv1's burn did around 50 on Trainee Island, Lv2 did around 60 and 3 around 70. I'm unable to verify as I currently have 3 char. Canceled deletion on my old sorc to get some numbers, even though she has Lv3, a bit hard to compare. On twilight hornets(Lv10) outside Ledise, old sorc does 65 per tick. New sorc nude does 39 and equiped does 39 too. On owl beasts(Lv26) north of Baston, old sorc does 52 per tick. New sorc nude does 31 and equiped does 31 too. On cursed spectrals(Lv30) on Level 1 of Tower, new sorc nude does 30 and equiped does 30 too. Burn would be affected by Magic Resistance, but not by Matk? As for Matk ratio, that would explain why Ice Lance Lv3 does slightly more than Fireball Lv3, even though the max damage range is similar. Kinda wish I had went full INT as I'm currently not interessed by PvP. Fireball Lv3: 63~73, Ice Lance Lv3: 37~78 Ice Lance used to do about 30 more damage with my old staff than Fireball.

I can confirm Burn does not scale.
But; it does tick up drastically: 39; 52; 65. That makes its damage larger than Poison Arrow, both in tick and in initial damage. However, I did notice a problem with Solar Flare: The burn is about 1/2 as fast ticking as poison is.

Although, at high level mobs, it gets dwarfed to 30/40/50. I would say, as the base damage is sizeable, this is "excuseable" because tbh even at high levels Poison Arrow loses its effectiveness.

Lightning Storm, Sorc's Parallel of Dark Scourge, looks alot weaker, but it also has a debuff on it, so I think that sort of balances that.

Elemental Adept overall is more useful than Darkness

Firestorm is pretty much Death Cauldron with a different debuff (Burn).

As for damage, tbh I'd have to level one to 42 to test.

I do know that atm, a Sorc can get almost every skill on both trees. Put 23 in Fire, and 19 in Ice, and you can create a pretty potent toon.

I'm curious to know if Earthbind scales (doubt it does).

I just think maybe an energy shield skill and another aoe would round out the class.

Rekikyo wrote:

I can confirm Burn does not scale. But; it does tick up drastically: 39; 52; 65. That makes its damage larger than Poison Arrow, both in tick and in initial damage. However, I did notice a problem with Solar Flare: The burn is about 1/2 as fast ticking as poison is. Although, at high level mobs, it gets dwarfed to 30/40/50. I would say, as the base damage is sizeable, this is "excuseable" because tbh even at high levels Poison Arrow loses its effectiveness. I do know that atm, a Sorc can get almost every skill on both trees. Put 23 in Fire, and 19 in Ice, and you can create a pretty potent toon. I'm curious to know if Earthbind scales (doubt it does).

My friend is 23 and his poison Lv1 does 75 per second. My burn does half its damage with double time. The 52 was with a Lv3 Flare on a Lv26 mob, the 65 was Lv3 Flare on a Lv10 and the 39 was Lv1 on a Lv10. Kinda unfair that SM's dot scales though.

Oh, thanks for that, I will consider that later on, I like my Quake for grinding.. xD

As for Earthbind, it does 280 on a Grass Hornet(Lv2 outside Raden), 182 on a Gremlin Lv10 and 140 on a Wolf Lv17. These numbers are at Level 3. Just like burn, not affected by matk, but by Magic Resistance? Kinda weird it goes down that fast.

crimsonlily46 wrote:

Rekikyo wrote: I can confirm Burn does not scale. But; it does tick up drastically: 39; 52; 65. That makes its damage larger than Poison Arrow, both in tick and in initial damage. However, I did notice a problem with Solar Flare: The burn is about 1/2 as fast ticking as poison is. Although, at high level mobs, it gets dwarfed to 30/40/50. I would say, as the base damage is sizeable, this is "excuseable" because tbh even at high levels Poison Arrow loses its effectiveness. I do know that atm, a Sorc can get almost every skill on both trees. Put 23 in Fire, and 19 in Ice, and you can create a pretty potent toon. I'm curious to know if Earthbind scales (doubt it does).   My friend is 23 and his poison Lv1 does 75 per second. My burn does half its damage with double time. The 52 was with a Lv3 Flare on a Lv26 mob, the 65 was Lv3 Flare on a Lv10 and the 39 was Lv1 on a Lv10. Kinda unfair that SM's dot scales though. Oh, thanks for that, I will consider that later on, I like my Quake for grinding.. xD As for Earthbind, it does 280 on a Grass Hornet(Lv2 outside Raden), 182 on a Gremlin Lv10 and 140 on a Wolf Lv17. These numbers are at Level 3. Just like burn, not affected by matk, but by Magic Resistance? Kinda weird it goes down that fast.

Unless your friend is linked II Mattack runes and 10 weapon at [3], his poison's not hitting 75 at lv1 lol at 23 lol. The base on Lv1 Poison cloud is 35/45/55 At Lv1 even with 900 magic attack will only tick 51 (I actually know this because I didn't level my poison cloud until level 36 beyond 1; part of my wishes I hadn't have waited lol)

Heh <3 for a Gm that splits topics

(It's after all in my nature to discuss mechanics in the location where they are brought up, so this is nice ^^)

Rekikyo wrote:

Unless your friend is linked II Mattack runes and 10 weapon at [3], his poison's not hitting 75 at lv1 lol at 23 lol. The base on Lv1 Poison cloud is 35/45/55 At Lv1 even with 900 magic attack will only tick 51 (I actually know this because I didn't level my poison cloud until level 36 beyond 1; part of my wishes I hadn't have waited lol)

Looked up my chat history, this was the conversation:

[1:32:16 AM] Him: hmmm [1:32:22 AM] Him: i wonder if the AOE poison skill is worth it [1:32:31 AM] Him: or if i should get my buffs higher [1:32:45 AM] Me: definitly to grind aoe o_0 [1:32:55 AM] Him: the poison one? [1:33:05 AM] Me: Well, if that'S the one I'm thinking about [1:33:05 AM] Me: yeah [1:33:09 AM] Me: I don'T know sm skills [1:33:14 AM] Him: i have just 1 lvl of poison atm [1:33:26 AM] Him: which still does 80 damage and 35 per sec for 30mp [1:33:44 AM] Me: fu [1:33:50 AM] Him: and 4 sec cd

Can't make another char to check the skills as I'm full for a few days ahd he's currently busy/afk, so maybe you'd know with this?

and yeah, thanks for the split. Felt bad in that other thread as I didn't expect my initial post to go that far.

Edit- Oh wait, misread that. Thought it did 80 to hp/sec and 35 mp/sec.. Well, it was late anyway.. /excuse

Rekikyo wrote:

Mattack boosts attack alot. I do about triple at 42 what I did at level 15.

Triple the damage of a lvl 15 for a lvl 42 with good gears is crazy imo.

lvl 15 normal mobs have around 500hp while a lvl 40 normal mob has around 8000hp.

So the mobs for that level difference have about 16x more hp, yet you only have 3x more damage.

I think the scaling is very bad at the mo.

We should do less damage at lower levels and more damage at higher lvl with good gears.

Normal mobs need a nerf imo, even with good gears it takes forever to solo the higher lvl solo quests. I think make mobs die faster but give less exp also.