The LUC*Random(0 to 1.5) originally went straight against HP when a crit was scored.

If the targets Defense exceeded your Attack power, you would never score any damage, except a random(0 to 10).

But if you did score a crit hit then LUC*Random(0 to 1.5) then this would go straight against the targets HP, even if the target had a million Defense. This is why archers used to be useful against high DEF targets.

This is why archers have a lower DPS than other classes so that they are not over powering.

But with the Absorb factor these days, it is applied first against the LUC*Random(0 to 1.5).

EP5 messed up the whole archer class.

JamesGodden wrote:

That abs calc is wrong.... or written incredibly badly, as it is implying the bonus of LUC is affected whereas its the total damage. Absorption is a deductible from the total damage output, nothing more complicated than that, i.e. if u hit 5000 vs 0 abs you'd hit 4000 vs 1000 abs Absorb affects every hit in exactly the same way, and also effects everything build in the same way, it doesn't especially hurt any style build. maximum noncrit ("max"atk-def)*ele - abs max crit (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] - abs, in both cases the damage removed by is the same, and also in both cases the abs is a simple deduction which could be rearranged to be a formula such as: (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 - abs + LUC*RND[0-1.5] or: - abs + (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] basically Absorb acts the same regardless of build, class or anything else, and it hurts crits and noncrits for the same amount (i.e. Luc is irrelevant)

Remember Aes's post? He provided all the details to my argument.
http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=610927

This is what I am talking about.

Absorb nerfed the archer class and destroyed the original intent of the damage formula.

LoDebar wrote:

JamesGodden wrote: That abs calc is wrong.... or written incredibly badly, as it is implying the bonus of LUC is affected whereas its the total damage. Absorption is a deductible from the total damage output, nothing more complicated than that, i.e. if u hit 5000 vs 0 abs you'd hit 4000 vs 1000 abs Absorb affects every hit in exactly the same way, and also effects everything build in the same way, it doesn't especially hurt any style build. maximum noncrit ("max"atk-def)*ele - abs max crit (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] - abs, in both cases the damage removed by is the same, and also in both cases the abs is a simple deduction which could be rearranged to be a formula such as: (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 - abs + LUC*RND[0-1.5] or: - abs + (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] basically Absorb acts the same regardless of build, class or anything else, and it hurts crits and noncrits for the same amount (i.e. Luc is irrelevant)   Remember Aes's post? He provided all the details to my argument. http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=610927 This is what I am talking about. Absorb nerfed the archer class and destroyed the original intent of the damage formula.

It nerfed all classes....

misterdude wrote:

With the release of EP4 we saw the implementation of the enchantment system. In regards to armors this means you can add damage absorption. For each level of enchantment, up to 20 per piece, you add an additional 5 damage absorption. It is important to understand that absorption is not the same thing as DEF. The DEF stat simply reduces physical damage taken and it factors in a specific place in the damage formula. Absorption, however, reduces ALL damage taken, be it physical, fixed, magical, LUC based, etc. And Absorption factors in at the very end of the formula after everything else is calculated. If you have 50 absorption and were going to be hit for 1000 damage, you would only receive 950 damage. It's simple and clean cut. Therefore, when decided whether to add LUC or STR, absorption does not really factor in because it will nerf both stats more or less equally. LUC damage bypasses DEF but not absorption.

i.e. its calculated against the total damage... so it hurts all people the same doesn't particularly hurt LUC archers, if someone has 1k Abs everyone loses 1k of their total damage output, whether they be a 3k str 0 luc buld or a 0str 3k luc build, both lose the same amount of pure damage, i.e. 1000,

Abs can as its a negative addition (a subtraction) can be calculated at any of the places I mentioned just by rearranging the formula. i.e against the first bit, which would make your LUC bonus still go directly against HP.

besides go check what's linked in your x-bow next time you think your nerfed

JamesGodden wrote:

LoDebar wrote: JamesGodden wrote: That abs calc is wrong.... or written incredibly badly, as it is implying the bonus of LUC is affected whereas its the total damage. Absorption is a deductible from the total damage output, nothing more complicated than that, i.e. if u hit 5000 vs 0 abs you'd hit 4000 vs 1000 abs Absorb affects every hit in exactly the same way, and also effects everything build in the same way, it doesn't especially hurt any style build. maximum noncrit ("max"atk-def)*ele - abs max crit (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] - abs, in both cases the damage removed by is the same, and also in both cases the abs is a simple deduction which could be rearranged to be a formula such as: (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 - abs + LUC*RND[0-1.5] or: - abs + (("max"atk-def)*ele)*1.5 + LUC*RND[0-1.5] basically Absorb acts the same regardless of build, class or anything else, and it hurts crits and noncrits for the same amount (i.e. Luc is irrelevant)   Remember Aes's post? He provided all the details to my argument. http://www.aeriagames.com/forums/en/viewtopic.php?t=610927 This is what I am talking about. Absorb nerfed the archer class and destroyed the original intent of the damage formula.   It nerfed all classes.... misterdude wrote: With the release of EP4 we saw the implementation of the enchantment system. In regards to armors this means you can add damage absorption. For each level of enchantment, up to 20 per piece, you add an additional 5 damage absorption. It is important to understand that absorption is not the same thing as DEF. The DEF stat simply reduces physical damage taken and it factors in a specific place in the damage formula. Absorption, however, reduces ALL damage taken, be it physical, fixed, magical, LUC based, etc. And Absorption factors in at the very end of the formula after everything else is calculated. If you have 50 absorption and were going to be hit for 1000 damage, you would only receive 950 damage. It's simple and clean cut. Therefore, when decided whether to add LUC or STR, absorption does not really factor in because it will nerf both stats more or less equally. LUC damage bypasses DEF but not absorption.   i.e. its calculated against the total damage... so it hurts all people the same doesn't particularly hurt LUC archers, if someone has 1k Abs everyone loses 1k of their total damage output, whether they be a 3k str 0 luc buld or a 0str 3k luc build, both lose the same amount of pure damage, i.e. 1000, Abs can as its a negative addition (a subtraction) can be calculated at any of the places I mentioned just by rearranging the formula. i.e against the first bit, which would make your LUC bonus still go directly against HP. besides go check what's linked in your x-bow next time you think your nerfed

But archers get .3 attack from LUC and 1 attack from STR therefore they need 1 STR and 1 LUC to equal the 1.3 multiplier that mele DPS gets from 1 STR. Understand? The loss of attack power from puting stats in LUC used to be viable before the added ABS of ep4. The point that ABS nerfs LUC and STR isn't the issue. The issue is that it takes an archer/hunter 2 stat points to equal the attack that mele DPS gets for one stat point post ep4.

ABS nurfed LUC build therefore multiplier nurfed archer/hunter class.

Get it now?

cnctina2 wrote:

ABS nurfed LUC build therefore multiplier nurfed archer/hunter class. Get it now?

Abs nerfed Str builds too, Abs knocks 1 damage off every 1 damage a toon would have done, it doesn't nerf just the luc damage it nerfs the total damage, if it hurt luc builds more, then abs would reduce a non-crit less than it reduces a crit.... since it doesn't it nerfs ALL builds exactly the same

JamesGodden wrote:

cnctina2 wrote: ABS nurfed LUC build therefore multiplier nurfed archer/hunter class. Get it now?   Abs nerfed Str builds too, Abs knocks 1 damage off every 1 damage a toon would have done, it doesn't nerf just the luc damage it nerfs the total damage, if it hurt luc builds more, then abs would reduce a non-crit less than it reduces a crit.... since it doesn't it nerfs ALL builds exactly the same

cnctina2 wrote:

The loss of attack power from puting stats in LUC used to be viable before the added ABS of ep4. The point that ABS nerfs LUC and STR isn't the issue. The issue is that it takes an archer/hunter 2 stat points to equal the attack that mele DPS gets for one stat point post ep4.

lol ok James let me try one more time. Does this part of my quote clear up what I am trying to say?

The nerfing hurts the archers more.

When you have 1 stat point, where do you put it? STR or LUC

For an archer with a Bow here is the basic damage formula, and lets assume zero defense and zero absorb, and the attack is solely based on stats.
Damage=(1.0*STR+0.2*DEX+0.3*LUC)*Ele*Crit+LUC*Random(0 to 1.5)

Now lets assume the Ele factor is 1.0 (neutral hit) and there was a Crit hit.

Damage = (1.0*STR+0.2*DEX+0.3*LUC)*1.5+LUC*Random(0 to 1.5)

Now 1 point in STR:
Damage = 1.5

Now 1 point in LUC:
Damage = 0.45 to 1.95
Average Damage = 1.2

With a melee weapon here is the simplified damage formula:
Damage = (1.3*STR+0.2*DEX)*ele*Crit+LUC*Random(0 to 1.5)

Now 1 point in STR:
Damage = 1.95

With 1 point in LUC
Damage = 0 to 1.5
Average Damage = 0.75

For Melee weapons, LUC is a huge waste of stat points for DPS. Except you need enough LUC to get the critical hits (also, lapis restrictions causes you to put LUC in your gear)

When you compare Melee weapons with Bows:
A Strength Comparison
Melee = 1.95 damage
Bow = 1.5 damage

Melee wins

LUC comparison
Melee = 0 to 1.5, average 0.75
Bow = 0.45 to 1.95, average 1.2

Bow wins

Maximum DPS
Melee (STR) = 1.95
Bow (STR) 1.5

Melee wins

Before EP4 and the Absorb nerfing the LUC*Random(0 to 1.5) was guaranteed damage against the target's HP. Thus LUC was guaranteed to score damage regardless of how much Defense a target had. Archers were highly desired in Pando.

But with absorb in this game, the DPS potential of Bows is significantly less than Melee weapons, regardless of class when you do a stat point to stat point comparison. Then when you looks at the skills, Archers don't have any melee skills, thus the damage multipliers of the fighters skills even makes archers DPS potential even worse.

This is just plain simple math. Yes, the Absorb nerfs all classes, but archers are hit the hardest.

Bottom line, if you are an archer, and while the absorb nerfing is still in effect, and you want maximum DPS, focus your stats on STR and only get enough LUC to get enough crits you want (And you still ned DEX to actually hit the target). This is for PvP. I don't know if any mobs have any of the upper level mobs have Absorb. So for grinding purposes against high DEF targets, LUC builds will still have and edge. Low DEF targets for grinding STR is a better way to go.