Author Message

hypnos34

Rank 4
hypnos34
Joined
20 Jan 2008
Posts
1954
Location
Over the Rainbow United States
PostedJul 02, 2008 7:43 pm   Last edited by hypnos34 on May 04, 2009 3:38 pm. Edited 8 times in total

Mr. Apulune's Guides

Dual lapis info.


I've received comments, questions, ****, moans, groans, gripes, and complaints all of which surround the Dual lapis.

What should the price be on the new Duals?

Do I have to relapis all my gear with new Dual lapis?

How hard is it to link a new Dual lapis?


These are the questions that come before template / stat discussions followed by "my build is better than yours because I have Duals and you don't". From the information I have gathered the new Duals will open many new doors for a plethora of class builds. In this guide I want to familiarize you with what the new Duals are and how they affect the marketplace and touch on some deeper potential duals have in store.

1. The basics on Dual lapis
A. Most of them can be put into any piece of gear save accessories.
1) A few are weapon specific
B. They have the same link % as a normal level 4 lapis (16% full bless).
C. They add a base +9 to a stat and add a secondary bonus given the level of the dual lapis.

2. Putting duals into perspective.
A. As stated above most duals fit into anything save accessories. Lets take a closer look at the list of what a standard dual will link into.

Dual lapis:
Head
Upper Armor
Gloves
Lower Armor
Boots
Weapons
Shields

Now lets take a look at Normal Lapis and linking restrictions:

Normal Str lapis: No Gloves**
Normal Rec lapis: No Upper Armor
Normal Dex lapis: No Lower Armor or Shields
Normal Int lapis: No Gloves or Shields
Normal Wis lapis: No Upper Armor or Shields
Normal Luc lapis: No Gloves or Shields


Dual lapis stats:

Dual Craft1: +9 Str +8 Dex
Dual Craft2: +9 Str +12 Def
Dual Craft3: +9 Str +175 hp
Dual Craft4: +9 Str +175 sp

Dual Safe1: +9 Rec +12 Def
Dual Safe2: +9 Rec +11 Atk power (Weapon only)
Dual Safe3: +9 Rec +36 MR
Dual Safe4: +9 Rec +175 sp

Dual Shrewd1: +9 Dex +12 Def
Dual Shrewd2: +9 Dex +8 Luc
Dual Shrewd3: +9 Dex +175 sp
Dual Shrewd4: +9 Dex +175 hp

Dual Mystic1: +9 Int +8 Wis
Dual Mystic2: Unknown
Dual Mystic3: +9 Int +8 Rec
Dual Mystic4: +9 Int +195 mp

Dual Wise1: +9 Wis +8 Rec
Dual Wise2: Unknown
Dual Wise3: +9 Wis +12 Def
Dual Wise4: +9 Wis +36 MR

Dual Fortune1: +9 Luc +8 Str
Dual Fortune2: +9 Luc + 11 Min/Max Atk power (Weapon only)
Dual Fortune3: +9 Luc +175 sp
Dual Fortune4: +9 Luc + 36MR

There are a whole assortment of topic discussion that can come from this information. I just put it together so you can evaluate it and apply it to your templates and character builds.

Its easy to see if you can afford dual lapis then its nice to have, but presently in order to get to the one of the maps which it drops we have to control certain relics. This can be a challenge to even be able to get to one of the maps let alone farm dual lapis there.

The market on dual lapis has come a long way. Prices tend to average 4 - 5mil standard with a few exceptions reaching 9 - 10Mil. Naturally the sp and weapon only duals will see lower end prices. Dual lapis with +9 +8 (5 - 6mil) stat will command higher prices and Dual Wis / Int(4 - 5mil) have the added Rec bonus. Dual Rec Lapis with a magic resistance will see PvP prices and I suspect will command the highest $$ (10+mil). Duals that add Physical Def will create new and interesting templates.


*ADDITIONAL INFO*
Imo these are the best lapis in the game. Best value! Best usability! They have been the centerpiece of my PvP guides for some time now.
1-15 PvP Melee Guide
1-15 PvP Caster Guide
Magic Resistance Guide

Let me give you a reference as to how Duals pair up to level 5's for higher levels:

Dual Craft 3 (+9Str +175hp) 4mil/each X2 = +18Str +350HP
vs.
Craft level 5 (+20Str) 30mil/each + Life level 5(+360hp) 7mil/each = +20Str +360hp

Now, factor in the link chance of the Dual(16%) vs Level 5's(8%). You would need 2X as many level 5's or some OP hammers (65m/each) for the level 5's.

Now, factoring in the cost of 16 Dual Craft 3's to successfully Link two slots = 64mil spent. For the same amount of gold you can barely buy two Craft level 5's or one OP hammer.

*INFORMATIONAL RESOURCES*
For in depth analysis of Lailah server marketplace Mr.Apulune’s Guide to Making $$$.
For a quick reference to more current Lailah marketplace values Mr.Apulune’s Refurbished Guide to the Marketplace.

**Edit thnx Sw0rDsPin

and if you have a little time... please click the following links and give a hand.

Shaiya Retention Efforts
What can make Lailah better?
Advertisement

hypnos34

Rank 4
hypnos34
Joined
20 Jan 2008
Posts
1954
Location
Over the Rainbow United States
PostedJul 02, 2008 7:46 pm   Last edited by hypnos34 on Apr 19, 2009 10:17 am. Edited 6 times in total

Lailah Server Dual Price Guide


Dual lapis $$$ values

I feel confident enough in my observations and with the market prices stabilizing to make the following price additions.

Dual lapis stats:

Dual Craft1: +9 Str +8 Dex (4 - 5 mil)
Dual Craft2: +9 Str +12 Def (3 - 4 mil)
Dual Craft3: +9 Str +175 hp (2.5 - 3.5 mil)
Dual Craft4: +9 Str +175 sp (1.5 - 2 mil)

Dual Safe1: +9 Rec +12 Def (5 - 7 mil)
Dual Safe2: +9 Rec +11 Atk power (Weapon only) (1 - 1.5 mil)
Dual Safe3: +9 Rec +36 magic resistance (7 - 10 mil)
Dual Safe4: +9 Rec +175 sp (2 - 3 mil)

Dual Shrewd1: +9 Dex +12 Def (2 - 3 mil)
Dual Shrewd2: +9 Dex +8 Luc (4 - 5 mil)
Dual Shrewd3: +9 Dex +175 sp (1 - 2 mil)
Dual Shrewd4: +9 Dex +175 hp (2 - 3 mil)

Dual Mystic1: +9 Int + 8 Wis (never seen in market ~20 mil)
Dual Mystic2: Unknown
Dual Mystic3: +9 Int +8 Rec (2 - 3.5 mil)
Dual Mystic4: +9 Int +195 mp (never seen in market ~5 mil)

Dual Wise1: +9 Wis +8 Rec (never seen in market ~20 mil)
Dual Wise2: Unknown
Dual Wise3: +9 Wis +12 Def (2 - 3 mil)
Dual Wise4: +9 Wis +36 magic resist ( never seen in market ~15 mil)


Dual Fortune1
: +9 Luc +8 Str (4 - 5 mil)
Dual Fortune2: +9 Luc +11 Atk power (Weapon only) (1.5 - 2.5 mil)
Dual Fortune3: +9 Luc +175 sp (1.5 - 2.5 mil)
Dual Fortune4: +9 Luc + 36 magic resist (2.5 - 4 mil)

*never seen in market doesn't mean that it doesn't exists, but I have never seen them in my travels through Apulune and the black market. I'll be glad to entertain any questions or comments on the above. The above pricing is based on intense observations of the past two months.

**Updated 4/20 with new Lailah Prices thnx to sfossil

Lanfear

Rank 1
Lanfear
Joined
14 Dec 2006
Posts
224
Location
Hong Kong China
PostedJul 03, 2008 12:18 am
Thanks for the info, was wondering what the stats on these dual lapis are.

Shin Megami Tensei: Imagine IGN: Lanfear Feel free to PM me if you need help.

sfossil

Rank 4
sfossil
Joined
10 Feb 2008
Posts
1990
Location
/Berlin Germany
PostedJul 03, 2008 10:25 am
Thats a great compendium of the lapis market as per today.
It's still a little bit confusing that there seems to be no rule behind and the additions for each basic type are different or at a different number (like "+175SP" has No3 at dual shrewd but No 4 at dual safe).

Has anyone tested yet if you can link all 4 types of one kind to a single gear? That could replace a linking like 4-3-2 of one type by 4.1-4.2-4.3 and would have an impact on the level 2 and 4 market. Although you still must be able to afford this Wink

skibo25

Rank 0
Joined
13 Dec 2007
Posts
53
Location
Perth Amboy United States
PostedJul 03, 2008 3:17 pm
First off, great guide, well done.

Second, your a bit off on the lvl 4s.

 
B. Level 4 normal lapis have seen a slight drop in prices. No longer will Str4, Rec4, and Int4 command 2mil price tags. Since the entry of the new dual lapis into the marketplace these once pricey lapis' are now humbled at with 1.5 - 1.8mil price tag. Dex4 and Assault4 sit around 1.2 - 1.4mil  


Ive been buying up Int and Str 4 when I see someone selling it for under 1.8m and selling it for 2-2.1m. Made quite a bit of money that way. What people don't realize is putting say "Int 4" in the header for your market will make it much easier to sell than just "Lvl 4 Lapis" in your header. Also the closer you are to the blacksmith the better for selling lapis. When bless is high or your in full bless, people don't want to look around, they want to get their lapis, try their luck and get back to grinding or whatever else they are doing. Just to give an example, when I first started playing the market, and didn't have much money, I picked up 2 int 4s from a guy for 1.5m and set up stall next to a guy who was selling them for 1.6m. I priced them at 2m. I was a bit closer to the blacksmith and had int 4 in the tagline while he only had lapis. I went and was doing something else online, and Xed out just in time to see someone buy my 2 int 4s. I cosed my stall, bought the dude next to me's int 4s, and sold all 3 of them for 2m.

Also a bit to add about dual crafts.

Lvl 1: 8-12m if you do see it for 8m buy it, you can easily get 10m.
Lvl 2: 4-5m
Lvl 3: 5.5-6m you can often get a great deal on these. I usually manage to find at least 1 a day selling at 3-4m.
Lvl 4: Market for these is horrible 3-4m they take a long time to sell as well.

kmhasan

Rank 3
kmhasan
Joined
20 Mar 2008
Posts
1041
Location
Dhaka Bangladesh
PostedJul 03, 2008 3:45 pm
sfossil wrote:
Has anyone tested yet if you can link all 4 types of one kind to a single gear?  

I am pretty sure you can. Haven't tested it out with all four, but one of my weapons is carrying two dual crafts.

sfossil wrote:
Although you still must be able to afford this.  

Best is to grind and farm for yourself if you have high lvl toons Smile. Even NM 52+ (in party), or 55+ (solo) works. This is why we need more pvpers to take down relics and give us a fair share of the maps.

As always, this has been a very nicely done review of the dual lapis and market price, Mega. Your contribution to this game is enormous. Thanks a bunch and karma for you.

hypnos34

Rank 4
hypnos34
Joined
20 Jan 2008
Posts
1954
Location
Over the Rainbow United States
PostedJul 03, 2008 4:27 pm
skibo25 wrote:
First off, great guide, well done.

Second, your a bit off on the lvl 4s.

 
B. Level 4 normal lapis have seen a slight drop in prices. No longer will Str4, Rec4, and Int4 command 2mil price tags. Since the entry of the new dual lapis into the marketplace these once pricey lapis' are now humbled at with 1.5 - 1.8mil price tag. Dex4 and Assault4 sit around 1.2 - 1.4mil  


Ive been buying up Int and Str 4 when I see someone selling it for under 1.8m and selling it for 2-2.1m. Made quite a bit of money that way. What people don't realize is putting say "Int 4" in the header for your market will make it much easier to sell than just "Lvl 4 Lapis" in your header. Also the closer you are to the blacksmith the better for selling lapis. When bless is high or your in full bless, people don't want to look around, they want to get their lapis, try their luck and get back to grinding or whatever else they are doing. Just to give an example, when I first started playing the market, and didn't have much money, I picked up 2 int 4s from a guy for 1.5m and set up stall next to a guy who was selling them for 1.6m. I priced them at 2m. I was a bit closer to the blacksmith and had int 4 in the tagline while he only had lapis. I went and was doing something else online, and Xed out just in time to see someone buy my 2 int 4s. I cosed my stall, bought the dude next to me's int 4s, and sold all 3 of them for 2m.

Also a bit to add about dual crafts.

Lvl 1: 8-12m if you do see it for 8m buy it, you can easily get 10m.
Lvl 2: 4-5m
Lvl 3: 5.5-6m you can often get a great deal on these. I usually manage to find at least 1 a day selling at 3-4m.
Lvl 4: Market for these is horrible 3-4m they take a long time to sell as well.  


Thank you for you comments.

I think you will find that while sometimes you still get 2mil for certain level 4's... its changing. I see more and more shops with higher end lvl 4's getting close to 1.5mil. I actually bout some STR4 and Rec4 for that price each of the past three days.

On another note, you can't generalize Dual lapis prices by levels. It doesn't follow a set pattern. For instance Dual Wise4 adding 36 magic resists never sits on markets. It gets gobbled up. Imo people won't have a good handle on pricing these for another month, but there are over 100 people a day hitting this post. In two weeks we will see some outrageous prices for some... then they will come back down to earth and a market for duals will have been forged.

Lastly, just because your one of the vultures nesting at the blacksmith commanding higher than normal prices through impulse buying doesn't mean you know what market values should be. This only gives you a very limited perspective. I'm glad that approach works for you, but the intent of this is to help the little guy and create a market thats not gouged too heavily.

skibo25

Rank 0
Joined
13 Dec 2007
Posts
53
Location
Perth Amboy United States
PostedJul 05, 2008 9:23 am
 
I think you will find that while sometimes you still get 2mil for certain level 4's... its changing. I see more and more shops with higher end lvl 4's getting close to 1.5mil. I actually bout some STR4 and Rec4 for that price each of the past three days.  


Yes, assault goes more for 1.5m now. Rec I don't pay much attention too, so I can't say there. Int and Str I still see going mostly for 1.9-2m every once in a while I'll come across cheaper, but I believe the average is still 1.9m.

 
On another note, you can't generalize Dual lapis prices by levels. It doesn't follow a set pattern. For instance Dual Wise4 adding 36 magic resists never sits on markets. It gets gobbled up. Imo people won't have a good handle on pricing these for another month, but there are over 100 people a day hitting this post. In two weeks we will see some outrageous prices for some... then they will come back down to earth and a market for duals will have been forged.  


I think the craft market is starting to set itself. You see 3x as many craft duals for sale as all others combined. It may still change a bit, but for the Dual Craft, I think the prices are about set.


 

skibo25 wrote:
First off, great guide, well done.

Second, your a bit off on the lvl 4s.

Quote:
B. Level 4 normal lapis have seen a slight drop in prices. No longer will Str4, Rec4, and Int4 command 2mil price tags. Since the entry of the new dual lapis into the marketplace these once pricey lapis' are now humbled at with 1.5 - 1.8mil price tag. Dex4 and Assault4 sit around 1.2 - 1.4mil


Ive been buying up Int and Str 4 when I see someone selling it for under 1.8m and selling it for 2-2.1m. Made quite a bit of money that way. What people don't realize is putting say "Int 4" in the header for your market will make it much easier to sell than just "Lvl 4 Lapis" in your header. Also the closer you are to the blacksmith the better for selling lapis. When bless is high or your in full bless, people don't want to look around, they want to get their lapis, try their luck and get back to grinding or whatever else they are doing. Just to give an example, when I first started playing the market, and didn't have much money, I picked up 2 int 4s from a guy for 1.5m and set up stall next to a guy who was selling them for 1.6m. I priced them at 2m. I was a bit closer to the blacksmith and had int 4 in the tagline while he only had lapis. I went and was doing something else online, and Xed out just in time to see someone buy my 2 int 4s. I cosed my stall, bought the dude next to me's int 4s, and sold all 3 of them for 2m.

Also a bit to add about dual crafts.

Lvl 1: 8-12m if you do see it for 8m buy it, you can easily get 10m.
Lvl 2: 4-5m
Lvl 3: 5.5-6m you can often get a great deal on these. I usually manage to find at least 1 a day selling at 3-4m.
Lvl 4: Market for these is horrible 3-4m they take a long time to sell as well.


Thank you for you comments.

I think you will find that while sometimes you still get 2mil for certain level 4's... its changing. I see more and more shops with higher end lvl 4's getting close to 1.5mil. I actually bout some STR4 and Rec4 for that price each of the past three days.

On another note, you can't generalize Dual lapis prices by levels. It doesn't follow a set pattern. For instance Dual Wise4 adding 36 magic resists never sits on markets. It gets gobbled up. Imo people won't have a good handle on pricing these for another month, but there are over 100 people a day hitting this post. In two weeks we will see some outrageous prices for some... then they will come back down to earth and a market for duals will have been forged.

Lastly, just because your one of the vultures nesting at the blacksmith commanding higher than normal prices through impulse buying doesn't mean you know what market values should be. This only gives you a very limited perspective. I'm glad that approach works for you, but the intent of this is to help the little guy and create a market thats not gouged too heavily.  


You completly misunderstood what I was saying. I was not telling people to try and take advantage of people. I was telling people to be smart sellers. Unlike myself, most people don't want to spend and hour or so everyday wandering Apalune. They want to go there, find what they want quickly, and leave. I am trying to tell people, name your stall correctly, state what you have, and you are more likely to get buyers. People who name their stalls, "Lapis" or "Heroics" are making it harder for people to find what they want. At least put the lvl of the lapis and heroics in there. My favorite are the ones who put, "_____" "..." or "Pleas Buy". The buyer is much less likely to visit them since they do not know what they are selling. It also seems that there is a pattern to where to find items in Apalune, and people should try to follow it. If your stall is mainly lapis, then be by the blacksmith, if its mainly equipment 37 and under, then by the portal, if its higher lvl equipment is by the warehouse, and ap items are in the middle. People are willing to pay the higher end of the market value, I don't call that being a vulture, just being smart.

You said you want to help the little guy? A week ago I had 4m to my name, and the most gold I ever had was when I bought my mount. After just a week I have over 100m from just buying and reselling, a third of that was lapis.

hypnos34

Rank 4
hypnos34
Joined
20 Jan 2008
Posts
1954
Location
Over the Rainbow United States
PostedJul 05, 2008 12:34 pm
yeah, I think i did misunderstand you. Sry bout that. I agree that smart buying and selling can be beneficial and profitable.

sfossil

Rank 4
sfossil
Joined
10 Feb 2008
Posts
1990
Location
/Berlin Germany
PostedJul 06, 2008 2:56 am

@ the dialog between Mr. Apulune and skibo25

buy cheap and sell expensive ?
The market is a great way to make fast money. And as it is designed right now, It's just hard to get an overview and you need time and patience to make good deals.

skibo25 has right that many people hate it to do that and they just want to link their gear and go back to the gameplay. And thats why around the blacksmith are many lapis sellers. Some realy expensive ones, some moderate but also some really cheap ones. All make their deals there.

It is like an big Asian market: Many small private shops, hard to find bargains but possible, and easy to get scammed when taking not care.
I think this is part of the game as it is.

To get a rally fair solution, we would need a (offline) trading house, where you can see all offers and sort them by price, use, level, description ...
This is standard in many other games. We don't have it and we won't get it, I guess. So we have to deal with the market as it is. I suggest not to judge about anyone, who's trading. Even when he's cheating.
I think this inteded by game design for a game with a light and a fury side. At the end it is still just a game.

Display posts from previous:   Sort by: